NSW Partner's Ex Refusing Visitation until Consent Orders are in Place?

[sammy01]

So my understanding is recovery orders are for a primary carer's whose kids have not been returned by the non-primary carer, or at least if for example the primary carer relocated without consent hence depriving the other parent access, so not applicable.

So has she told you that you won't be seeing the kid next holidays? Regardless there is nothing you can do until she doesn't comply with the orders.

You said something about not knowing who is 'helping her'. Look the reason she is winning is because she has no idea about the rules, etc. She is making the rules up at the minute and until a higher authority starts threatening her with jail, etc, or losing primary care status. She is gonna all of a sudden realise that she ain't making the rules up anymore. But at present, she has had nearly 2 years of pulling the strings and I hate to say it but by not applying force against her, she has an inflated sense of her ability to make up the rules.

I really hope you see the kid next holidays and probably, more importantly, don't get caught up in crazy s**t...

So claims of DV from way back when.. Not relevant. Claims child's behaviour has deteriorated because of talking to dad on the phone - stupid. Claims child's behaviour at school is because of dad - stupid.

If this goes to court she is going to be seen as alienating the dad. She has been successful so far, but if she breaches court orders, it won't go well. So for the minute, go ahead as planned to see the kid in the holidays and continue organising face-time conversations and recording when it doesn't happen. It is one thing to stop the kid seeing dad. It is another thing to start poisoning the kid's mind about dad. Courts don't like that either.

 

[Hpflstpmum]

Thanks again @sammy01 I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to respond.

Ok that makes sense regarding the recovery orders.

Yes she has said she will be withholding their daughter from visiting, and so far she has also not replied to any texts sent by my partner in trying to organise FaceTime last night or tonight. The last text we got from her was her threat of having her partner "talk" to my partner "face to face" next time he is up (up=in the same state as them).

We will wait and see what happens as you say. What are the chances of claiming costs from her if she doesn't facilitate time and we have bought plane tickets that will go unused?

I agree with you abour her inflated ego now as she has been getting virtually what she wants every time up until now. I do hope the court does give her a stern talking to and can show her what she's doing isn't right and not in the best interests of their daughter.

I am very afraid of the court seeing only her side due to her being so manipulative with their daughter and playing victim by going to a women's and children's DV counselling place but I do have to try and have faith in the system that they will see through it as surely they've seen this kind of game being played before?

We will continue to take note of everything as it happens, for sure.

 

[Hpflstpmum]

I've just read the recovery orders form that is available via AFP and it seems the description might meet what we are after it we wanted to go that far:

"It is an order of the Court that can require a child be returned to a parent of the child, person who has a parenting order that states the child lives with, spends time with or communicates with that person, or a person who has parental responsibility for the child."

As my partner has a parenting order which states he has equal shared parental responsibility and also states he is able to spend time with plus communicate with their daughter, it may just work?

 

[sammy01]

I do think that is more pertinent when a child isn't returned. So you should be looking to get a letter from your solicitor to her telling her that the consent orders need to me adhered with and that you will be seeking court action if necessary.

So she is not going to play nice until she is threatened with a negative consequence for her actions. Unfortunately short of a letter from a solicitor that is about all you can do until after she withholds.

You could take the threatening text messages to the cops, but really it aint worth it.

Gee I feel for you guys.

 

[Hpflstpmum]

Thank you again for your responses @sammy01

We're definitely heading that way. We'll be speaking to our lawyers tomorrow to update them and get the next best course of action. At this stage she is completely ignoring all messages from my partner so sad for her that contraventions are piling up (not really) but more sad for their daughter who now once again has her father out of the picture.

Nah, we won't do anything about the messages other than evidence for it comes to it in court.

 

[Hpflstpmum]

It's been a while since I posted here.

My partner's daughter did come and stay with us for half of the holidays. We really got to see just how much alienation is at play sadly. We feel very helpless not being able to do much about it right at this minute.

Things have been up and down, and the ex has certainly been pushing the boundaries as well as contravening in minor ways. It's all very frustrating.

I do have a question for anyone that might be willing to answer -A al phone calls are to be in privacy as per the consent orders as well as for him to be given at least 48 hours notice if the call can't be facilitated. Tonight when my partner rang to speak to their daughter, there was no answer and he then got a text from the ex saying to call back in 30 minutes.

He did this with no answer. He then got another text saying that their daughter wouldn't be in private as the phone was in the ex's bedroom charging. My partner called anyway, and the ex's current boyfriend answered aggressively saying something to the effect of "She's not in private cos the phones in my room. *daughter's name* tell this *terrible name that can't be repeated* that you don't want to talk to him."

My partner has had to remind the ex countless times of different parts of the order she isn't following. It seems she doesn't care. Their daughter still spoke with my partner even though she was told to say she didn't want to.

Poor girl is so caught in the middle. It's awful.

Does anyone have any suggestions on what we might be able to do about this incident? Surely the ex could have put her phone on charge in their daughter's room? Or they could have left the room? And the things her boyfriend said to their daughter and to my partner are disgusting.

 

[AllForHer]

Yes, all of those things are good choices, but remember who you're dealing with. If your partner indicates there is something that makes him angry or sad, rest assured that a request to stop will be taken as an invitation to keep going with vigour.

Without going to Court and having the child fully assessed by an expert witness, there's no way to assess the damage and have it addressed properly for the child's benefit. Your partner needs to start asking himself how committed he is to this child, because from here, I'm asking myself if a change of residency is in order (and I don't say that often).

 

[sammy01]

Do nothing is my opinion. What is going to be achieved by talking to solicitors? Waste of money. Going to court? No magistrate can make a scum bag stop being a scumbag.

You could write a letter outlining the orders that have been breached etc, etc... But they will laugh at you and do it again because they know they can... It ain't a fight you can win so don't bother. Bit like primary school. Learn to walk away and don't dignify their stupidity with a response

One more thing... Do nothing. Given the history here, any conflict is bad news for you. I bet the natural response is to wanna go over there and punch his lights out. That won't get you more time with the kid and it will get you less time. So they can tell you to **** off... And if you complain, then she will go to the cops - claim harassment - get an avo and none of that sounds like fun.

 

[Hpflstpmum]

Thank you both for responding. Every bit of constructive criticism and suggestion is helpful.

Shortly after the phone call, my partner received a lengthy text message from the boyfriend off the ex's phone with threats against my partner and my partner's dad. He also said that the ex has now taken out a DVO against my partner due to all the abusive phone calls my partner has made to the ex. The boyfriend was talking down to my partner and name calling.

We haven't responded as we are quite worried about how they are towards my partner's daughter considering the way the phone call panned out and previous history of aggression towards my partner in his daughter's presence.

My partner has a diary of every call, text and email he has ever had with his ex so we can prove they are false allegations if what the boyfriend is saying is true about the DVO.

We feel it may be in our best interests now to take out an AVO against them and have my partner's daughter included in some way to try and about any further traumatic experiences while she is in their care. We plan on going to the police today when my partner gets home from work to discuss it and present our concerns.

A side note but something still related: the ex has been sending text messages to my partner about their daughter having mental health issues and she had taken her to be assessed for potential ADD, ADHD or ASD as well as possible multiple personality disorder. We never saw any symptoms of this during her stay with us. In fact, my partner spoke with the school just this week and they commented on how well behaved she was after her school holidays.

They then said she is slipping again as time goes on. She has been physically violent towards other students and the ex had initially blamed my partner for it, so we're relieved to know the school think my partner is a good influence rather than the opposite.

This all raises huge concerns for us considering the picture the ex is trying to paint is one of their daughter being unstable mentally, so why would they risk hurting her any further by being this way to my partner in front of her?

My head is well and truly swimming.

 

[sammy01]

Just remind us - you guys have consent orders? Interim court orders? Court orders?

My thoughts are - do nothing, especially if you have interim orders. Why? The twit is gonna argue that the kid is suffering emotionally because of dad. She will argue that there is high conflict and the kid should be kept away from dad because there is too much conflict. And you getting an AVO against them and them getting an AVO against you kind of proves conflict.

Remember there is no justice in family law - just best interests of the child... Now I've read cases where the kids have been kept away from dad by the courts, not because dad is dangerous but because mum has been so successful in convincing the kids that dad is dangerous that the kids are petrified of him and as such, it would be too traumatic for them to have to spend time with him... So don't play into the conflict and focus on being a good parent. Or fight hard and go for primary care.

One more thing - ask for the names of the doctors, psychologists the kid has seen and call them. I've had some real positives from talking to some of the specialists my kids saw. One thing resonates - lots of them told me my ex is crazy.

I knew that already, but it is good to know that others recognise it. And you're as entitled to speak to the kids' doctors as mum... You'll find out the truth too