NSW Partner's Ex Refusing Visitation until Consent Orders are in Place?

[Hpflstpmum]

Thank you for your response @AllForHer I appreciate the reassuring words too.

My partner got a call back from the organization and they said unless the mother gives permission for them to share information, it's completely under her control. They also refused to confirm or deny if their daughter was a patient (which was expected anyway).

Our main concern is that the ex's line of thinking is she will somehow have enough evidence (in her opinion) to withhold their daughter from visitation on the grounds that somehow it's not good for her to see my partner. I feel that's what her intentions have been all along as technically she could have picked any general counsellor/psychologist via her GP through a referral but instead has specifically chosen this Women's DV place.

I've spoken to our lawyers who are going to think about the best plan of action. I mentioned what you had been through regarding the fact that the ex hadn't consulted with my partner first and how perhaps he could go down the avenue of saying he virtually refuses treatment at that particular place. We'll see what they say when they get back to us in the next couple of days. They said they'll try to be as quick as possible.

 

[sammy01]

I would not even play along. Now, I'm going to sound sexist and maybe I am. Some crazy DV organisations are crazy. Been there, done that. Suggested to one counsellor that I could, maybe, even be the victim in my relationship. Nope - I had it explained that because I'm a male, they won't even entertain providing help or accepting the idea the males can be victims. These folk are crazy and I reckon the worst element of all gov't funded structures around family law. They are crazy. They would not accept that they were helping an idiot keep her kids away from their loving father. Nope. No chance...

So don't play along. Realise that these organisations are not the problem (kind of). They need to exist to protect victims of DV, but they are useless in realising that some folk play the system. Hence, the ex is the real problem, not these organisations. But you have court orders and nothing the crazy people say should stop the court orders being followed. That won't stop the ex from playing the stupid game and the idiots will provide some assistance.

They will tell her that if she has concerns, then she should withhold the kid. But the courts won't tolerate it. However, it will be more delays between you and you seeing the kid.

So don't get involved with the crazy ones. If you try to assert your rights as the father of the child they will label you sexist or misogynist and justify their overly exorbitant gov't grants by telling themselves they just saved a child from time with their abusive father. Oh, I get mad...

Now if you insist that you want to know what they're talking about, they will twist it into you having something to hide and that is why you're so paranoid. These people are idiots and they have power, which is the worst thing for an idiot to have.

Sorry for the rant, but don't get involved; it will only make you crazy, too.

So what to do?

Nothing and when she doesn't let you see the kid, go to court. Stop letting this twit play you for a fool any longer. Sorry, but you guys need a good kick in the butt. Get to court. Realise that this idiot will only let you see the kid once a magistrate threatens to take the kid off her if she doesn't start playing nice. And how stupid is she going to look to wait until the court orders are signed to make these allegations. Christ, how could dad have done anything that has emotionally damaged this child? The child hasn't seen the dad in how long?

Don't believe me? I have had my 3 kids live with me since the youngest was 4. Why? Because the ex ran out of options on ways to screw me over so she gave up and handed the kids over.

Rant over - kind of - as soon as you get the court orders and she doesn't play along, go to court. If she thinks that you won't hold her to account for not following the court orders, you will never see the kid because she will see the court orders for what they are. Toilet paper. They are only useful if you hold her to account for not following them.

Yep, I get mad.

 

[Hpflstpmum]

Thank you @sammy01 I appreciate your honesty. You've pretty much said what I was dreading, and I've voiced these concerns to our lawyers. I completely agree with you as well about your views of some of the places involving DV despite being a 'victim' myself from a past relationship.

Now that we have the consent orders, it does make decisions easier in terms of what we want to do if things go pear shaped. Being the holidays are 5 weeks away, the ex has timed it perfectly as there are 6 sessions and she's already had one this week gone. I can see the ex saying "yes yes yes" to the flights and come their daughter's last session she'll refuse to put her on the plane. Then not only will we be out of pocket, we'll also not have the access.

So I guess then we would have to go down the avenue of a contravention? Would we then just keep the whole residency situation silent and let the judge give her a stern talking to with a slap on the wrist after she brings false allegations of abuse with no evidence to the table? Along with her supportive organisation?

It's so heartbreaking as my partner's daughter is just so excited to be able to finally get here to see her brother and dad, and now there is more likely than not going to be this obstacle that will stop it from happening. The mother has allowed the phone calls and FaceTime to occur which is great but who knows how long any of this will last.

I certainly don't want to be played for a fool and neither does my partner, we have just found it very difficult to keep going because of how beyond difficult the mother is to deal with. She's even saying the counsellor said in the one session she's had with their daughter that she may have multiple personality disorder. All hearsay but she's pulling out the big guns before we've even had a week go by of the consent orders being 'followed'.

 

[sammy01]

Ok, so there is a tendency to catastrophise around crazy people. Look let's just get to the holidays and wait and see. If she does withhold, let's deal with it then but it might be a good idea to learn about self-representing.

 

[Hpflstpmum]

Yes, fair call. We've told our lawyers what's going on and we can only wait it out at this stage, I guess.

Fingers crossed.

 

[Hpflstpmum]

Well, I'm back and the news isn't good. Are you surprised? Probably not. And neither are we but we had hope. Foolish, I know, but hope all the same.

My partner's daughter has acted out twice at school this week where according to the ex she has assaulted other students (today) and on Monday she had yelled at a teacher as well as jumped off a table and hurt her arm. After today's fiasco with violence against other students, the police were apparently called and then she was taken by the ex to the counsellor at the domestic violence place.


The ex has rung my partner saying to "get the f out of her (daughter) life" and that she intends to get reports from the schools their daughter has attended showing that she has only acted out since contact with her dad has started. She said she is going to get as much evidence as she can to prohibit contact with my partner.

For some twisted reason the ex has facilitated contact with my partner's parents tonight. They haven't seen her for about two years. She has been absolutely fine with them so far, even saying she was looking forward to seeing us. Then she gets a random call from her mum and she is very silent on the phone for a long period. She then just "agrees" to something. After that, my partner had rung to have his designated phone call with her and she says that her mum said she doesn't have to talk to him if she doesn't want to. My partner didn't push it so they hung up.

Their daughter had also said to my partner's family in a very robotic and unchildlike way that she has to go to a counsellor for the domestic violence her dad did to her mum. When asked was it because she saw it happen, she paused like she didn't know what to say and then agreed.

The ex is claiming everything is my partner's fault. We're shattered. I realise we've let her play us but looking past that, their daughter clearly has revealed just how much she has been drilled in to her. We have no idea how having a handful of conversations with her dad has any influence on her physically assaulting students.

The school had only just yesterday agreed to allow us to have access to information regarding my partner's daughter and yet today he gets no phone call or email about the incident. The school have sighted the annexure with the ex's family violence accusations so it's beyond obvious they've formed a very unfavourable opinion of him.

We just feel like giving up. Surely the counsellor would see through the coaching? But then again, it's for the mother's benefit taking her there and clearly they're not cooperating.

I have no idea where to go from here. I called our lawyers after hearing from my father in law about what happened as the ex told him what happened at school first before she called my partner. Our lawyers are so perplexed by her and have to regroup to see what they can do for us but we can't afford to keep them.

Anyway, any suggestions would be more than appreciated. Thank you.

 

[Hpflstpmum]

Just quickly - the ex has breached by doing the following:

Talking in a manner that is not respectful toward my partner (empty threats like her partner will talk to him when he flies up next, telling him to get the f out of their daughter's life, etc)

Intending to withhold

Limiting my partner's ability to access information regarding their daughter as it is equal shared parental responsibility

Coaching their daughter into not communicating with him

Taking their daughter to a counsellor without consenting my partner first for agreement

That's what I can think of right now. Not sure what other things would be a contravention without talking to our lawyers

 

[AllForHer]

I feel like a broken record with this situation.

Go to court. You need to go to court.

Even if you self represent, you're going to get a better deal than the train wreck that it is now, so stop fluffing around and just go to court.

 

[Hpflstpmum]

Thanks for your response @AllForHer

Do you suggest we go to court for the contraventions?

My understanding is, either way, we have to go to mediation first, is this correct? And from there we would need the S60i certificate to go back to court for either the contraventions or to seek a different arrangement?

I'm thinking based on what has happened, it will be a fairly messy time at court with the ex bringing up a lot of things regarding mental health of their daughter.

 

[AllForHer]

I would get legal advice for best course of action. I'm inclined to say you need new orders, so an initiating application would be preferred, and I don't think Rice & Asplund would be required because the current orders are less than 12 months old.

You do need to go through the process of mediation though, so may as well get started on it now.

Don't worry about the mental health stuff yet. An opinion of a psychologist who has only talked to one parent is not going to be given much weight, and it's nothing more than speculation to suggest the issues this child is having is because she's started seeing her father again. A family report writer might find the mother has ramped up the alienation tactics after the consent orders were made, who knows?

Can I just ask, is there any reason that the child can't live with you?