VIC Question on International Relocation - no parental orders in place

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spectnas81

Active Member
28 April 2020
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Let me provide all details before the main question:
  • We live in VIC
  • Got separated in 2016 and finalised divorced in 2018
  • Daughter is now 10yrs old
  • New registered domestic partner in 2018 (and I am married again in 2019). We were renting in VIC and now bought a house in VIC
  • ex-husband always had drug addiction issues hence decided to leave in 2016
  • ex-husband once had my little daughter in back seat, and he was high / passed out in the car. And he was going low speed in circles in an an empty parking lot where I found them. ex-husband put my daughter in danger several times due to his addiction
  • ex-husband has been to rehab several times
  • ex-husband scared us, punched and break doors, threatened during separation (and daughter heard/seen)
  • ex-husband pays 15-30aud per month child support
  • ex-husband does not call regularly (ie last time was 3 months ago for 5 minutes)
  • we call him and he does not pick up. He also keeps changing phone numbers
  • ex-husband crashed the car so no car. he lost his license with drunk driving as well. He does not drive
  • ex-husband had many known train ticket penalties in both VIC and NSW as well
  • ex-husband used to live with his parents (in NSW)
  • ex-husband has seen daughter twice in 2 years, and both cases, we drove her to him. He scared her in a day by being aggressive against the grandmother. My daughter texted us as she has been scared. Second time was similar. ex-husband's family has been kind and caring, so they took my daughter away from there and called us. The two instances scared my daughter where he was supported with child psychologist
  • Ex-husband's own mother noted he is stealing and using drugs over 2018-2019 and 2020. Ex-husband had ankle monitoring for a while too
  • Ex-husband had 4-5 court cases against him in NSW in 2019-2020
  • Ex-husband's mother recently put an AVO against him and he moved out.
  • there are no parental orders or plan in place since 2016
  • I have been caring, taking care of my daughter from 2016 to 2018 alone. Then from 2018 to now, with my new husband. We are going on international trips, domestic trips, taking her to school, birthday parties, social events, dancing, parent teach meetings, carnivals, swimming, and etc. Ex-husband is not involved and absent with all these
  • Ex-husband always promise to visit for birthdays or claims he sent gifts. Constant failure of these promises are affecting my daughter. We have never told her that he is a drug addict or homeless etc. We never talked negatively about ex-husband. We even go and buy gifts and put in mail as if ex-husband sent. Ex-husbands mother also sends gifts on behalf of him.

We would like to relocate to Europe for 2 years (not permanently) with our family to provide international experience and family life for our daughters. My new partner also has kids. We did our wedding abroad as well in 2019 with all kids. We looked at the best private school in that country, and our kids want to move as well. My daughter wants this and she is upset we could not sort it or cannot talk to ex-husband yet.
We will not sell our home in Victoria. We will move to Europe temporarily yet will be visiting Australia twice a year for school holidays so my daughter can see all grandparents or ex-husband (if he wants to).
Ex-husband currently has less contact with her even in the same country. Ex-husband's parents are informed and they are supportive. My parents are supportive.

I have called to talk to ex-husband and he initially was ok on the call. Then towards end of the call he has threaten my husband and my parents.
I texted him and emailed him the details, and it is not permanent move. And if he wants he can also call, Skype, or FaceTime (which does not do now anyways, or has not done for a long time).

Ex-husband has not contributed emotionally, physically or financially since 2016. He had very rare communication, and at the times he had, he scared our daughter.
Our daughter does not trust and scared of her own father. She does not want to talk to him, but if he calls once in 3-4 months; she tells him what he wants to hear as she is scared. She heard over years him yelling, cursing, threatening me or his own mother and others. We (me, my husband, my parents, and ex-husband's mother) constantly encourage our daughter to talk to him if and when he calls.

I do not have his physical address and no-one knows as this point. I again dropped him a text and email and kindly asked to talk in a week.
We will plan our relocation after COVID-19 pandemic (perhaps towards end of the year)

What is the most logical step considering the minimum stress for my daughter?

1. Do we relocate overseas and wait for him apply for recovery if he ever does? And if he does, we have tons of evidences on his trend, our families, our daughter and all are aware. We have been trying to contact or talk to him as well to reach to a collaborative agreement which will reflect well on our daughter's wellbeing; and either no contact or threats.

2. Do we apply FDR? But what if again he is absent and does not attend?

3. What if he continues to threaten me, my husband and my family? His own mother put a recent AVO for him as well. He is currently in NSW and we are in VIC so not worried at this point but no-one knowing where he is, and he is threatening over phone is a big worry.

My biggest worry is his ongoing affect on my daughter. If he contacts or sees her, his aggression or issues scare her then she is worried and scared and can not sleep at nights.
If he does not call for a long time, then she is upset why he does not call, or starts protesting stating she does not want his last name or never wants to see him. There is no balance. Every child should have access and healthy relationship with parents but my ex-husband does not have self or social consciousness or he does not have empty to understand his negative impact on a 10-years-old kid. I know eventually, we will need to face some hard facts and explain things but I need the best possible solution with minimum impact on her.

I am sorry that it has been long but always worried once it comes to well-being our my daughter
thanks in advance for all suggestions.
 

Atticus

Well-Known Member
6 February 2019
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I need the best possible solution with minimum impact on her. (daughter)
So to clarify, no ordes in place ?

Accepting the circumstances & events you have listed are factual, then I think just relocating is going to have the least impact on all..... No orders means you are not in breach of any legal obligation.. Again, accepting your description as fact, I can't see any recovery order being pursued

The alternative is starting with FDR, progressing to court, possibly long & potentially expensive process... Risk of FV as a consequence of legal action. Seems not worth the risk for a 2 year relocation IMO.
Ex-husband always promise to visit for birthdays or claims he sent gifts. Constant failure of these promises are affecting my daughter. We have never told her that he is a drug addict or homeless etc. We never talked negatively about ex-husband. We even go and buy gifts and put in mail as if ex-husband sent. Ex-husbands mother also sends gifts on behalf of him............

........If he contacts or sees her, his aggression or issues scare her then she is worried and scared and can not sleep at nights.
If he does not call for a long time, then she is upset why he does not call, or starts protesting stating she does not want his last name or never wants to see him.
I can see that you want to minimize the emotional burden on your daughter, which is good, however, I think you need to possibly step back from giving gifts on his behalf... I can only image that in the mind of a 10 YO especially, that would be a very mixed message & only add to the confusion. How would she process the two extremes of being distressed by his behavior, but at the same time believing he is sending wonderful gifts.... Not doing her any favours in that regard IMO....
I know eventually, we will need to face some hard facts and explain things
possibly best done with the guidance of a child psychologist
 
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spectnas81

Active Member
28 April 2020
6
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31
Thanks Atticus. Also agree that we can not forever protect her or keep things pink cloudy. Overprotecting is our instict yet not the best as you noted. I agree and I should need to do better
 

spectnas81

Active Member
28 April 2020
6
0
31
1. " I can't see any recovery order being pursued".

Once ex-husband visited our town and he was in hotel. They called police 3 times as they found in unconcious in the rental, called ambulance. Police recorded as drug related as as I went to police station to get details. Then drove him to airport. There are even more instances like this. And random threat calls

We will relocate internetionall, start new job and set up a business using our savings. Plan to play annual rent to a large house, pay private school upfront for all kids. It is a good chunck. And then if my ex-husband tries to apply for recovery; will I have a chance to provide all the evidences while abroad?
or will we be asked to return asap without sorting stuff in Europe?

2. "The alternative is starting with FDR, progressing to court, possibly long & potentially expensive process... Risk of FV as a consequence of legal action. Seems not worth the risk for a 2 year relocation IMO."

Over years, I asked to do mediation at least 4 times yet ex-husband ignored. He is not around, he is not involved, he does not contribute with anything, he does not contact...
He had 9 court cases in NSW and 2 in VIC. He is volatile, agressive and throwing threats.
Trying to get hold of him is a tough thing as it is; yet if we get hold of him; how can I even get him think of his own kid without threats or cursing? At the same time; instead of dragging it too long; and always thinking what if he applies for recovery etc; shoulde we choose long court option and show all these evidences?


It may be the case we informed him. He does not agree or disagree. He does not pick up, he does not call. There are no parental orders. And I have been sole carer last 4 years. He has no idea about his own child that he scared her twice and put her ar risk. I want to say; we relocate in 6 months; and he may call 1-2 in 6 months to say hi maybe.

yet god knows in 1 year what he may call or do..
Still abit unsettled and confused on best route to follow
 

spectnas81

Active Member
28 April 2020
6
0
31
Get the next plane outa here...
I am leaning towards that. It is not like we are running away. We got an opportunity and it will be great for the family, all kids to socialise in a new country as a neutral place, attend a private English school, enjoy warm climate, and we can expand our investments for all 3 kids. And we want to come back to Australia in 1-2 years but max 2 years.

Still have the worry that once we move there and come back for the first holiday, what if we get stuck here since he puts in a complaint. I am hoping if that ever happens, we can get to share all the evidence to clear it and etc. I personally do not want to fall into a bad situation or do not want this to reflect negative.
 

sammy01

Well-Known Member
27 September 2015
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So he would need to make an application to the courts for your kids to be put on the airport watch list. I reckon that is gonna be too much hard work for this punter.

If that did happen, you would be notified. Then you need to work on what to do. Obviously you'd need to make a response and do the legal stuff...

My thoughts.
Option 1
Dear ex.
I intend to travel with the kids to XXXXXXXXXX. If you have an issues with this please apply to the family courts. I will ensure that while away you are kept informed about the kids and upon returning I will ensure you have opportunities to spend time with the kids. (or words to that effect.)
Option 2.
Just go. I'd go for option 2. Especially given the history you've outlined above.
 

Atticus

Well-Known Member
6 February 2019
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Option 2.
Just go. I'd go for option 2
In this case, I would also go with option 2 .... You don't need him getting his crap together just long enough to see a lawyer & have an emergency ex parte order done to include child's name on an airport watch list....