WA Objecting to a FVRO in WA
- Thread starter Jimbo!
- Start date
Perhaps the police sought the order as part of their Standard Procedures (like in NSW).
Your path of least pain is to accept the order without admissions.
And then abide by it, 100%.
With a bit of luck, and 100% compliance on your part,
it will dilute the negative impression that is
easily inferred from your conduct described above.
Your path of least pain is to accept the order without admissions.
And then abide by it, 100%.
With a bit of luck, and 100% compliance on your part,
it will dilute the negative impression that is
easily inferred from your conduct described above.
The court will make a violence restraining order if it is satisfied that (a) the Respondent has committed an act of abuse against the Applicant and the Respondent is likely again to commit such an act against them or (b) the Applicant reasonably fears that the Respondent will commit an act of abuse against them and that the making of a violence restraining order is appropriate in the circumstances.
I'm not getting it. The court needs to be satisfied that I've committed an act of abuse AND (not or) I'm likely again to commit such an act. Even if the first point is proved, there is nothing to demonstrate that I pose a threat exemplified by the fact she turned up to my house yesterday and walked in uninvited, 2 days after me getting a FVRO when you would think I'd be at my most violent...
You don't live in fear of someone and then walk into their house uninvited and stay 20mins+
I'm not getting it. The court needs to be satisfied that I've committed an act of abuse AND (not or) I'm likely again to commit such an act. Even if the first point is proved, there is nothing to demonstrate that I pose a threat exemplified by the fact she turned up to my house yesterday and walked in uninvited, 2 days after me getting a FVRO when you would think I'd be at my most violent...
You don't live in fear of someone and then walk into their house uninvited and stay 20mins+
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The purpose of restraining orders is not to protect people from the emotional fallout of a failed relationship, which may be bitter, spiteful and unpleasant Walsh v Barron [2012] WADC 165 3. The purpose of restraining orders is to protect people from violence in the form of acts of abuse which, include behavior that is progressively and continuously, not occasionally, intimidating, offensive, or emotionally abusive
Jimbo,
Based on your information, I suspect you'll be struggling to contest this. As others have posted the threshold for a magistrate to make a order is set very low.
Before making a decision be sure you check that there is nothing in the FVRO than could impact your ability to be a parent to your kids.
-Does the FVRO recognize the existence of your consent orders and describe which of those takes precedence where there is a conflict? In our case, husbands ex made an FVRO application in response to the Family Court application, so orders made in the Family Court after that stipulated that the Parenting Orders would take precedence. Since your orders are historical, you may not have the same protection.
-Can you contact the ex for any parenting issue, or just arranging pick up/drop off?
-You’ve said it prevents you from going within 50m of the ex? That would potentially raise issues with your work but also attending school events- assembly, sports days etc if you both currently do that, even if you don't interact with her.
It could be worth offering an undertaking, should be easier if she is the applicant (rather than the police). Your solicitor can advise but in basic terms you make a promise to the court to abide to the conditions set out in the undertaking (in our case we pretty much mirrored the FVRO, although changed some wording so that husband could at least drive down the road school was on without threat of prosecution). Key difference that and the order is that breaching an undertaking won’t get your charged and risk a criminal offence, though it would not be looked kindly on by the magistrate and be held against you were she to apply for another order in the future. If you’ve learnt the lesson from this episode, it shouldn’t pose a problem for you. It is up to the applicant to accept and subsequently cancel the FVRO though- you can only propose it.
If she doesn’t take that, you’re probably best served accepting on a without admissions basis, however if any of the existing conditions are unworkable or leave you at risk of being in breach for going about your life, especially living so close and working in the same place as the ex, first test if the order can be amended to make sure you wouldn't be in breach for those things.
Be ready for a long wait in the system if you do contest- the (ex-parte) interim order was made against my husband in March last year, he lodged his objection within the 3 weeks period you’re allowed and was allocated a date in November, so had that order hanging over his head for 8 months despite the ‘evidence’ never being tested. I doubt the wait has improved in the interim.
Based on your information, I suspect you'll be struggling to contest this. As others have posted the threshold for a magistrate to make a order is set very low.
Before making a decision be sure you check that there is nothing in the FVRO than could impact your ability to be a parent to your kids.
-Does the FVRO recognize the existence of your consent orders and describe which of those takes precedence where there is a conflict? In our case, husbands ex made an FVRO application in response to the Family Court application, so orders made in the Family Court after that stipulated that the Parenting Orders would take precedence. Since your orders are historical, you may not have the same protection.
-Can you contact the ex for any parenting issue, or just arranging pick up/drop off?
-You’ve said it prevents you from going within 50m of the ex? That would potentially raise issues with your work but also attending school events- assembly, sports days etc if you both currently do that, even if you don't interact with her.
It could be worth offering an undertaking, should be easier if she is the applicant (rather than the police). Your solicitor can advise but in basic terms you make a promise to the court to abide to the conditions set out in the undertaking (in our case we pretty much mirrored the FVRO, although changed some wording so that husband could at least drive down the road school was on without threat of prosecution). Key difference that and the order is that breaching an undertaking won’t get your charged and risk a criminal offence, though it would not be looked kindly on by the magistrate and be held against you were she to apply for another order in the future. If you’ve learnt the lesson from this episode, it shouldn’t pose a problem for you. It is up to the applicant to accept and subsequently cancel the FVRO though- you can only propose it.
If she doesn’t take that, you’re probably best served accepting on a without admissions basis, however if any of the existing conditions are unworkable or leave you at risk of being in breach for going about your life, especially living so close and working in the same place as the ex, first test if the order can be amended to make sure you wouldn't be in breach for those things.
Be ready for a long wait in the system if you do contest- the (ex-parte) interim order was made against my husband in March last year, he lodged his objection within the 3 weeks period you’re allowed and was allocated a date in November, so had that order hanging over his head for 8 months despite the ‘evidence’ never being tested. I doubt the wait has improved in the interim.
No it doesn't say anything about 50m. She was in my house yesterday. I have suggested an undertaking. Unfortunately I think she will say no as it's a control thing. She would see this as acquiescence on her part, so I doubt she will go for it. The FVRO recognises the consent orders and doesn't appear to affect our parenting arrangement. However I don't trust her and going through the FVRO it seems it would be easy for her to entrap me. We work for the same company, she started this week, I live on the street behind her, she constantly emails me (all about the kids), but all it will take is for me to say ignore her at work and I've breached for being intimidating or if I drop the kids off at hers in the drive and she asks me to carry the suitcases into the garage and I forget I'm not supposed to - breach....
How did your ex go with contesting the VRO?
How did your ex go with contesting the VRO?
Sorry- my mistake about the 50m.
Unfortunately her behavior is not bound by the order, so as you've picked up on, it will be your responsibility at all times to remember you are bound and not be sucked in by any friendly overtures.
Ultimately he did not have to go to trial to contest. In my opinion, the original order was sought as a legal tool to attempt to influence the parenting matter and/or to intimidate him from proceeding with it. His ex tried to use it as a bargaining chip in those discussions. Ultimately the parenting matter was resolved by consent and as soon as those documents were signed her lawyer produced another minute of consent to say they would drop the FVRO- it took a few weeks but it was ultimately cancelled, not long before the original trial date had been planned.
I can't know for sure how the contest would have gone. I felt confident on the basis of the facts in the case that it should have been dismissed- her accusations were very weak and in several cases demonstrably false. I would never say I was 100% confident though. The political wind is just blowing too hard in the other direction- some of the remarks made by the Magistrate in the initial interim hearing make me very concerned that the system has already supposed every man is a perpetrator of family violence.
Unfortunately her behavior is not bound by the order, so as you've picked up on, it will be your responsibility at all times to remember you are bound and not be sucked in by any friendly overtures.
Ultimately he did not have to go to trial to contest. In my opinion, the original order was sought as a legal tool to attempt to influence the parenting matter and/or to intimidate him from proceeding with it. His ex tried to use it as a bargaining chip in those discussions. Ultimately the parenting matter was resolved by consent and as soon as those documents were signed her lawyer produced another minute of consent to say they would drop the FVRO- it took a few weeks but it was ultimately cancelled, not long before the original trial date had been planned.
I can't know for sure how the contest would have gone. I felt confident on the basis of the facts in the case that it should have been dismissed- her accusations were very weak and in several cases demonstrably false. I would never say I was 100% confident though. The political wind is just blowing too hard in the other direction- some of the remarks made by the Magistrate in the initial interim hearing make me very concerned that the system has already supposed every man is a perpetrator of family violence.
Mate, no one here has said you have a good case, you should defend this one. We're not saying you abused the ex. We're just saying in our collective experience, these things are handed out freely.
So on the one hand she came to your house, had a cuppa... How can she feel intimidated? well maybe she knows she has an avo on you and as a result is a bit more confident. I don't know, I don't care... But weigh that up against the fact you unlawfully entered her property. Don't care why. But you did. Which way do you reckon a magistrate is gonna go?
So on the one hand she came to your house, had a cuppa... How can she feel intimidated? well maybe she knows she has an avo on you and as a result is a bit more confident. I don't know, I don't care... But weigh that up against the fact you unlawfully entered her property. Don't care why. But you did. Which way do you reckon a magistrate is gonna go?
Yup OK. I spoke to a lawyer yesterday and looks like my chances aren't that great. I do think my ex would consider dropping it or an undertaking. I don't think she realised the severity of a VRO or least the severity if breached and the ease with which it can be breached.But with her personality the way it is and the fact she was probably encouraged by her friends she needs to save face and not looking like she has acquiesced to me. She will cut of her nose to spite her face, I need to tread carefully. Mediation may be an option.
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