WA Objecting to a FVRO in WA

Australia's #1 for Law
Join 150,000 Australians every month. Ask a question, respond to a question and better understand the law today!
FREE - Join Now

Jimbo!

Well-Known Member
2 February 2019
71
5
224
left my ex last April and moved out in July. Since then things have been relatively amicable, 50/50 access. Unfortunately after Christmas things deteriorated. I blocked her on my phone, email, FB etc told her about my new girlfriend and told her to stay away. I'd had enough, she also had some things of mine in the garage. She lives in the same street as me and one evening I went and knocked on her door, no response so I used a spare key to try and get into the garage to get some items which we were in dispute over. I couldn't get access and left after 5 mins. She didn't phone the police, but phoned her friend.

Stupid and regrettable thing to do, she was in the house at the time (I didn't realise) and could see me on the security cameras. That was the first incident of any kind since separating. She was obviously freaked out and scared. The police arrived yesterday with a FVRO. It states we are allowed contact via email, sms and facetime but only regarding the kids. She has been emailing me the last 24 hours regarding the kids. I have 50/50 care with the kids and am still allowed on the property for handovers. I haven't responded to her emails as I'm fearful of breaching the FVRO.

I got a copy of the avadavat and in it it states the incident, which she describes more or less as it happened, then it describes in 3 other separate boxes other incidents and dates, presumably so they can see a pattern.

box 1 - the incident 26 jan 2019
box 2 - multiple abusive SMS messages by myself (we had separated but were living together) 18 aug 2018
box 3 - I grabbed her by the throat. This isn't true. I'm an 85kg rugby player and she's 55kg. We had a party with 20+ guests, she wasn't visibly upset or have any marks on her. She got in my face and I pushed her away. Irrespectively it's my word vs her word. This incident occurred back in dec 2007 and was the only physical incident in our 17 year relationship.





I've never displayed any signs of violence towards her. We've been pretty amicable, spending Xms together as a family. What are the chances of my objection being successful.
 
Last edited:

Rod

Lawyer
LawConnect (LawTap) Verified
27 May 2014
7,726
1,056
2,894
www.hutchinsonlegal.com.au
Low.

What you should do is look very carefully at the conditions and if acceptable as far as the kids are concerned, consider consent without admission.

You've already acknowledged it was a stupid thing to do, but you should know it was stupid regardless of whether she was out.

When you have kids together you have to tread very very carefully or risk losing access. Doubly/triply so when a new woman enters the scene. Your ex may feel her role as mother is under threat.
 

sammy01

Well-Known Member
27 September 2015
5,152
720
2,894
ok so part of the problem is that it isn't just your evidence. Have a read of this.... To save you some time just read section 19... BTW this is based on NSW law but the provisions of these things are pretty simmilar across all the states.
Apprehended Violence Orders (NSW) - Criteria that must be met — Mario Licha Barrister

So if the ex has reasonable grounds to fearful... You are not able to really prove what she does or does not fear...
Now in your first post you wrote 'She was obviously freaked out and scared.' Throw that into the mix with a few poorly worded text messages and the fact that you 'pushed her' again your words in your post... Can you see how easily a police prosecutor is gonna smash you given what I've done.

If you're still getting 50/50 care. You want to think through what is most important... BTW do you have consent orders for the shared care?

My advice. Accept without admission. Save your $$$ to go see a solicitor about getting consent orders because atm if she wants she can stop you seeing the kids and that is true with or without the avo. I'd be using your $$$on that rather than a solicitor for defending the avo.
New partners tend to bring problems. Time to tread carefully.
 

Jimbo!

Well-Known Member
2 February 2019
71
5
224
We have consent orders for the kids, so 50/50 care is not an issue. She stated in her affadvit that "I'm a good Dad and no threat to the children" she reiterated this in emails to various family members.

Re your link:


A court may, on application, make an apprehended personal violence order if it is satisfied on the balance of probabilities that a person has reasonable grounds to fear and in fact fears:

(a) the commission by the other person of a personal violence offence against the person, or

(b) the engagement of the other person in conduct in which the other person:

(iii) intimidates the person, or

(iv) stalks the person,

being conduct that, in the opinion of the court, is sufficient to warrant the making of the order.


Other than trying to get into the garage to get my stuff, there has barely be a cross word in the 6 months since I moved out. We had Xmas lunch together as a family. Not sure whether it's relevant, but she didn't call the police until 24 hours later, she messaged her friend and went and stayed there the night. I phoned up 3 days apologised, she was good on the phone, we had a nice chat, she didn't press charges, but then 2 days look took out a FVRO. In it it states I am allowed on her property for handover, we can communicate as long as it's about the kids. She also recently got a job at the same company I work at, she started last week. None of this makes sense. I knocked on the door to make sure she wasn't home and tried to get into the garage. There isn't a pattern here of threatening, abusive behaviour. Since I got served with the FVRO she has been constantly emailing me I haven't replied and she's getting more and more insistent that I reply. Surely if this is a woman that fears me, she would have had me charged, insisted I don't came on her property, insisted I stay 50m+ away from her and found somewhere else to work! I would have done. For work reasons I cannot have a FVRO.
 

sammy01

Well-Known Member
27 September 2015
5,152
720
2,894
Look you're in a political storm. AVO DVO domestic violence are hot button issues right now. .. You're not looking at 'beyond reasonable doubt'. The threshold that needs to be established is 'on the grounds of probability.' The fact that the cops were prepared to proceed with the interim avo makes me think the cops felt there were grounds.

More problems... You can go ahead and defend it, but you'll need legal representation, a barrister would be a good idea. So there is a few grand $$$.

Ok, so working for the same company? at the same location? That could be an issue. BUT I don't think a FVRO is gonna impact on your work, what do you do for a living?

So you entered a property that you don't reside at... I get it, I do. But I also see how easy it is to make that situation look like you entered BECAUSE you knew she wasn't there and that is an invasion of privacy...

I'd be getting some advice, but I doubt this will impact on your work and if it doesn't then accepting without admission is a good option. BTW - Maybe it is time to move on. At the time this AVO thing was horrible when I had one. But I look back at it now and I'm glad it happened. My ex had me coming to the house to change light bulbs, mow lawns. We were 'amicable' but it was me sucking up and trying to keep the peace. Then all of a sudden there was an avo and I was not allowed to go near her house etc etc. Mate it was great. It helped me move on and totally disengage with her.... Just my experience.

BUT please read the first few sentences of your first post. You tried to get unlawful entry into her property. Mate that is enough to see you hung. I don't think you've got much chance of defending this thing.

Final thing. What is she emailing you about? You can communicate about the kids? true. Be careful with your words. But - what is it she is emailing you about?
 

Jimbo!

Well-Known Member
2 February 2019
71
5
224
Ok my Mum spoke to her and she is open to other options. She is stating I have been harrassing her, I showed my Mum 2 months of SMS exchanges between us which were very friendly, so that's crap, but anyway she is saying she wants me to leave her alone and I want her to leave me alone. Is there an alternative to a VRO that will give her assurance I won't bother her?
 

Rod

Lawyer
LawConnect (LawTap) Verified
27 May 2014
7,726
1,056
2,894
www.hutchinsonlegal.com.au
We have consent orders for the kids, so 50/50 care is not an issue.

Hmm, you need to check your WA laws. In other states 50/50 consent orders are at risk with a AVO, even if you spent $50k on legal fees getting court orders.

The FVRO IS potentially a serious issue for you, hence why you need to carefully examine what restrictions are imposed.

Do not treat the FVRO is a trivial issue that will not impact on your consent orders - get legal advice.

If the police have raised the FVRO (check who the applicant is on the form), your ex has very little say in what happens. Get legal advice.
 

sammy01

Well-Known Member
27 September 2015
5,152
720
2,894
In some states you can make an undertaking to the court to be a good boy. Not sure if that is applicable in WA.
$500 for an hour chat with a solicitor is a good idea. BUT be careful. Solicitors are hard work. Their priority is their hip pocket. Solicitor could offer to take the case on, only to advise you down the track that you should accept without admission and charge you for the work done.

So what sort of work do you do? I dont thing an AVO is gonna risk your employment. Remember it is not a conviction. I'm a school teacher and the AVO didn't show up on my Working with children police check.

She has been emailing you? what about?

BTW - the ex might be open to other options, but the police are the ones who took the thing against you. Effectively the ex has very little say in what happens next. Mate if she is still letting you see the kids then this is probably not a fight worth having. Just play smart, you blocked her on FB etc etc, so this is her response. That said, you entered her property without permission that is undeniable, you sent some poorly worded text messages, again undeniable. Based on the wording of the legislation as per the link I sent you earlier, I reckon you're on a hiding to nothing trying to defend this one.
 

Jimbo!

Well-Known Member
2 February 2019
71
5
224
In some states you can make an undertaking to the court to be a good boy. Not sure if that is applicable in WA.
$500 for an hour chat with a solicitor is a good idea. BUT be careful. Solicitors are hard work. Their priority is their hip pocket. Solicitor could offer to take the case on, only to advise you down the track that you should accept without admission and charge you for the work done.

So what sort of work do you do? I dont thing an AVO is gonna risk your employment. Remember it is not a conviction. I'm a school teacher and the AVO didn't show up on my Working with children police check.

She has been emailing you? what about?

BTW - the ex might be open to other options, but the police are the ones who took the thing against you. Effectively the ex has very little say in what happens next. Mate if she is still letting you see the kids then this is probably not a fight worth having. Just play smart, you blocked her on FB etc etc, so this is her response. That said, you entered her property without permission that is undeniable, you sent some poorly worded text messages, again undeniable. Based on the wording of the legislation as per the link I sent you earlier, I reckon you're on a hiding to nothing trying to defend this one.

I think she took out the FVRO not the police. Doesn't that mean she can withdraw it?

The lawyer I'm seeing on Tuesday if a friend of a friend so will do it on the cheap. $370/hr instead of $400 lol..

I work in IT. I was told by the cops that apparently it can restrict your travel to the US as well?