SA Child withheld against interim orders. No access. Issue with child care centre

[Atticus]

interesting link Glass.... Also this section of it confirms the sections of the act I quoted as relevant >>>> "
Schools are not parties to parenting orders and they are therefore not required to comply with, or enforce, them.

However, under the Family Law Act 1975 (Cth), a person who is not bound by a parenting order will contravene one if they:

• intentionally prevent compliance with the order by a person who is bound by it
• aid or abet a contravention of the order by a person who is bound by it.

In our experience, it is most uncommon for a person who is not a party to an order to be found to have contravened it. We are not aware of any school teachers or staff being punished for having contravened a parenting order during their employment.


Nonetheless, it is clearly possible and staff should be aware that there may be consequences if they knowingly act contrary to a parenting order.

 

[gunnerzzzz]

I have a somewhat similar situation to you gunnerzzzz. Not exactly, but due to false allegations, I was under supervised access for a while and one of those days per week was while the children were at daycare. I felt like that established the attitude of the daycare centre towards me so that even when the allegations were essentially dismissed and the risk was determined to be low, I got the supervision removed and equal shared parental responsibility was upheld but I still felt like for some time, the daycare centre were not treating me like an equal parent. Because my orders only gave me specific hours on specific days, I was totally excluded from communications and special events (fathers day dinner, etc). I didn't even know they were having a fathers day event until the day of it, and of course as it was in the evening, it fell under time that my ex had so unless I could get to her to consent to the children attending with me with just hours notice (she would never agree to anything she didn't have to), I couldn't do it. They also would not give me the door code to the building, despite the fact that every other parent was given it, so I was forced to wait for staff to open it for me. I was being treated like a second class parent.

The daycare centre also said they were responsible for enforcing court orders, despite the fact that my understanding is that it is not their responsibility. They should obviously be AWARE of court orders, and alert the other parent if there is a breach of them, but should not interfere with parental contact unless they identify a genuine safety issue.

Are schools obliged to enforce parenting orders?

Cooper Grace Ward Senior Associate Craig Turvey discusses whether schools have an obligation to enforce parenting orders.

legalwiseseminars.com.au

The above article seems to agree with me on that point, although it appears there is still confusion out there because some other articles/guidelines say otherwise. A recent discussion with a family report writer revealed they also thought it was the daycare's responsibility to enforce court orders... Confusion reigns.

Ultimately though, over time, the daycare has realised that I have no intention of breaching the orders and simply want to be an involved parent and I'm hoping things will be better in 2020. I can only reiterate the advice you've been given and what you've realised yourself... Be firm but don't appear aggressive or confrontational if possible, because that's only likely to make them worry you'll storm in and abduct your child out of nowhere - a nightmare scenario for any daycare centre. Parents shouldn't have to walk on egg shells to have the contact with their children that they deserve and the court has already ordered, but there you go. It's all part of a biased and unfair system that we have to navigate. Not to make everything genderised, but we live in a world where mums are assumed to be better parents, where dads are all potentially domestic violence perpetrators, and most daycare staff are female. It's not surprising that they will see things through their own tinted lens.

Thanks mate.

Feel bad for you're scenario. It's definitely difficult.

I have a light at the end of the tunnel as no way a judge could at minimum not re estate my time soon.

If only I knew what I do now, 2 years ago, I would have had orders very specific placed in. But at the time I had no clue.

It's only natural if people see an inch they will try and take a mile.

 

[gunnerzzzz]

interesting link Glass.... Also this section of it confirms the sections of the act I quoted as relevant >>>> "
Schools are not parties to parenting orders and they are therefore not required to comply with, or enforce, them.

However, under the Family Law Act 1975 (Cth), a person who is not bound by a parenting order will contravene one if they:

• intentionally prevent compliance with the order by a person who is bound by it
• aid or abet a contravention of the order by a person who is bound by it.

In our experience, it is most uncommon for a person who is not a party to an order to be found to have contravened it. We are not aware of any school teachers or staff being punished for having contravened a parenting order during their employment.


Nonetheless, it is clearly possible and staff should be aware that there may be consequences if they knowingly act contrary to a parenting order.

Yep... That stuff there is basically an example as to how this whole system works and flawed.

Now I understand these measures of how things work is useful in the right circumstances.

ie... Take mine but let's say I assaulted the mother and or child. Having the mother withholding the child and taking off while it goes to court to assess, with no way the potentially dangerous party could get the child has merit.

Unfortunately though, it gets utilised the wrong way by parties to serve their own agenda

 

[sammy01]

Yeah - you have flawed me... Ordinarily my advice to to try to get orders that stipulate that you pick the kid up from school so the ex will have a difficult time excluding you. But your ex has even trumped that one.

 

[Been2Trial]

Tread carefully. I had a similar thing happen when we were on interim orders, got in a shitfight with the centre, and despite me being 100% right, the judge didn't give two hoots. What he was more concerned about was the fact that I got in a shitfight with the centre, which ultimately resulted in them throwing the whole thing in the "too hard" basket and cancelling child's enrollment.

It was a toxic environment for me, the ex had been sending child there for months before I got the interim orders and had clearly been in the ear of the centre director, who was actually reporting to my ex on my pick up and drop off times, and way more that very clearly crossed boundaries.

But... long story short, None of that mattered. I ended up getting severely chastised for it and it cost me the shared parental responsibility say on Education.

So, I agree that a meeting with centre management is probably not a bad idea, but tread lightly and don't cause them to feel like they might end up in a legal joust with you It can cost you dearly.

 

[GlassHalfFull]

Yeah, that was a concern for me too, I didn't want for the children to lose their place in the centre if the staff deemed it too much conflict.

In all my dealings with the daycare manager, I've gone to great lengths to apologise for even involving them in the conflict between my ex and I, and stated that I wished I didn't have to do so but have been forced to because my ex (in my case, anyway) has been quoting them in affidavits using their supposed comments to her as justification for denigrating my parenting... For example, supposed issues that were reported by daycare to her when she picked up the children after I've had time with them: petty things like that the child has seemed more tired, moody and difficult after my time with them, or returned with a full nappy. Not that I have to justify myself here, but by way of explanation, it's quite a long drive (45 minutes) to drop them off and the nappy sometimes does get full during transit. I figure if I've got a choice between returning them late and returning them with a slightly old nappy, I'd rather get them in on time and simply let the daycare staff know that a new nappy is needed which they have been more than happy to do!

To be fair, recently daycare have been mostly fair and reasonable with me lately and made it clear that THEY did not have a problem with the state I was returning the children in, and said that in future, any issues would be reported in writing to both of us, with the implication being that then my ex couldn't twist and exaggerate their comments to further her cause (crusade) against me. I think that's all any parent in a situation like that would like - for communication to be transparent and fair, and not siding with one parent over the other without due cause.

It's just frustrating because once you're in 'the family law system', everything you do is scrutinised, twisted and in many cases used against you. Things that in the 'real world' shouldn't really matter or define your ability to parent become points that could decide the future of your relationship with your own children. Meanwhile the primary carer parent doesn't really have to justify anything because they're (usually) not the one under the microscope, and any conflict THEY create is fuel they can use to fight you.

 

[gunnerzzzz]

Agree...

I understand that the worker/center may believe they have been put between a rock & a hard place with mums actions to withhold contrary to orders, & what appears to be a direction to them from mum to not release the child into your care....

But here is the thing..... An interim order has the same weight as a final order.... Mum may decide to ignore it & she doe's so at her own peril, BUT as for the child care center, a direction from mum (or dad) does NOT take precedence over the order, OR the general obligations to compel EVERYBODY to not hinder it's directions... So when you do meet again with the director of this center, bring their attention again to the orders, & then inform (remind?) them of these sections of the family law act, & how their actions are in total breach of it...

FAMILY LAW ACT 1975 - SECT 65M General obligations created by parenting order that deals with whom a child lives with

FAMILY LAW ACT 1975 - SECT 65N General obligations created by parenting order that deals with whom a child spends time with

FAMILY LAW ACT 1975 - SECT 65NA General obligations created by parenting order that deals with whom a child communicates with

FAMILY LAW ACT 1975 - SECT 65P General obligations created by parenting order that allocates parental responsibility

Unless there is something in regulation that gives them clear authority to disregard (I doubt it)... then If they don't want to be in breach of a Commonwealth court order, perhaps they should tell mum that they are compelled under legislation to not hinder your access, or to not bring the child so they are not put in that position

Hey.

The answer I got from the centre

*I am not able to provide you any policies which address your particular questions.

Then basically refer to what was written previously

 

[GlassHalfFull]

Wow, they are really playing hardball and treating you like a second class parent. That's really disappointing. Although like Been2Trial said, getting into conflict with them is almost certainly not going to help your case in court, but it sounds like finding a new daycare centre that actually respects you as an equal parent to the children could only be a positive. I don't really know what else to suggest. It might be time to get a lawyer to write a stern letter to them informing them that they may be in breach of the orders if they continue to refuse you time with the children as per the orders. Perhaps a legal representative will carry more weight than you have so far. Other than that, just wait for your hearing... The longer the child has been withheld, the stronger your case will be I suppose.

 

[sammy01]

Yeah go through their regulatory body that I gave you the link for.

I want you to have on record that the ex has masterminded this. You don't want her to say that it has nothing to do with her it is all the fault of the child care centre.

BTW have you contacted the ex and asked her to give you authority to pick up the kid from the pre-school?

 

[GlassHalfFull]

BTW have you contacted the ex and asked her to give you authority to pick up the kid from the pre-school?

Although I agree with you that you need to have dotted every i and crossed every t to show you did everything you could, it's clear that the ex has no intention of giving the authority, or even responding.. He already said in his first post "The other parent and the legal rep have ignored all correspondence about seeing my daughter."