SA Child withheld against interim orders. No access. Issue with child care centre

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sammy01

Well-Known Member
27 September 2015
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Can you move closer to mum so the kid goes to mum's preferred school?
Mate judge might have to make a call here that one parent is primary carer. Sadly, sometimes they make the call that mum is because that is best interest of the child, even though mum is the problem.

I'd be calling that number I sent you. Mate 50/50 and a child care worker refused to hand over the kid? appalling. Go hard on writing a letter to them.
 

Atticus

Well-Known Member
6 February 2019
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Mate 50/50 and a child care worker refused to hand over the kid? appalling. Go hard on writing a letter to them.
Agree...

I understand that the worker/center may believe they have been put between a rock & a hard place with mums actions to withhold contrary to orders, & what appears to be a direction to them from mum to not release the child into your care....

But here is the thing..... An interim order has the same weight as a final order.... Mum may decide to ignore it & she doe's so at her own peril, BUT as for the child care center, a direction from mum (or dad) does NOT take precedence over the order, OR the general obligations to compel EVERYBODY to not hinder it's directions... So when you do meet again with the director of this center, bring their attention again to the orders, & then inform (remind?) them of these sections of the family law act, & how their actions are in total breach of it...

FAMILY LAW ACT 1975 - SECT 65M General obligations created by parenting order that deals with whom a child lives with

FAMILY LAW ACT 1975 - SECT 65N General obligations created by parenting order that deals with whom a child spends time with

FAMILY LAW ACT 1975 - SECT 65NA General obligations created by parenting order that deals with whom a child communicates with

FAMILY LAW ACT 1975 - SECT 65P General obligations created by parenting order that allocates parental responsibility

Unless there is something in regulation that gives them clear authority to disregard (I doubt it)... then If they don't want to be in breach of a Commonwealth court order, perhaps they should tell mum that they are compelled under legislation to not hinder your access, or to not bring the child so they are not put in that position
 

gunnerzzzz

Well-Known Member
8 March 2020
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Agree...

I understand that the worker/center may believe they have been put between a rock & a hard place with mums actions to withhold contrary to orders, & what appears to be a direction to them from mum to not release the child into your care....

But here is the thing..... An interim order has the same weight as a final order.... Mum may decide to ignore it & she doe's so at her own peril, BUT as for the child care center, a direction from mum (or dad) does NOT take precedence over the order, OR the general obligations to compel EVERYBODY to not hinder it's directions... So when you do meet again with the director of this center, bring their attention again to the orders, & then inform (remind?) them of these sections of the family law act, & how their actions are in total breach of it...

FAMILY LAW ACT 1975 - SECT 65M General obligations created by parenting order that deals with whom a child lives with

FAMILY LAW ACT 1975 - SECT 65N General obligations created by parenting order that deals with whom a child spends time with

FAMILY LAW ACT 1975 - SECT 65NA General obligations created by parenting order that deals with whom a child communicates with

FAMILY LAW ACT 1975 - SECT 65P General obligations created by parenting order that allocates parental responsibility

Unless there is something in regulation that gives them clear authority to disregard (I doubt it)... then If they don't want to be in breach of a Commonwealth court order, perhaps they should tell mum that they are compelled under legislation to not hinder your access, or to not bring the child so they are not put in that position
Hey thanks.

I will read all that.

I had communications with the area rep responsible for this centre on Friday.

The rep stated they checked with their legal adviser.

Feedback on this would be appreciated.

The rep said in summary;

* we have the family court order dated xxxxx.

*we understand that at all of the times that xxxxxx is currently in care at our centre she is to be within spending time with xxxxxx im pursuant to that court order.

*However, we are not able to give access to you or release xxxxx into your care without the consent of xxxxxx and where a handover has not taken place.

Basically saying because the mother has never handed me back.... Court orders are irrelevant.

The time I went to the centre was in my time.

At the time of discussions taking place about coming down again to see my daughter and getting access while this was being said to me was in my time.

The centre was made aware that these are my times under the orders by me.
 

Atticus

Well-Known Member
6 February 2019
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However, we are not able to give access to you or release xxxxx into your care without the consent of xxxxxx and where a handover has not taken place.
I would be quoting those sections of the FLA I provided & pointing out they are in breach of it unless they can show you IN LEGISLATION or at least regulation the section that says one parent can unilaterally direct them to breach a family court order..... They may say they are in a difficult position or whatever, BUT, that is not your doing & only their problem if they choose to take direction from mum over orders...

You said you have been basically 50/50 since early 2017.... So what has been the catalyst for this recent contravention?
 

gunnerzzzz

Well-Known Member
8 March 2020
54
0
196
I would be quoting those sections of the FLA I provided & pointing out they are in breach of it unless they can show you IN LEGISLATION or at least regulation the section that says one parent can unilaterally direct them to breach a family court order..... They may say they are in a difficult position or whatever, BUT, that is not your problem & only thiers if they choose to take direction from mum over orders...

You said you have been basically 50/50 since early 2017.... So what has been the catalyst for this recent contravention?

No violence. No dvos. Basically the mother wants information she has never given me, I have reasons for not giving it. Nothing in orders says I have to. Same as she never did. Lot more to it, but no risk in my care at all. Never has been. Same as her.
 

gunnerzzzz

Well-Known Member
8 March 2020
54
0
196
Agree...

I understand that the worker/center may believe they have been put between a rock & a hard place with mums actions to withhold contrary to orders, & what appears to be a direction to them from mum to not release the child into your care....

But here is the thing..... An interim order has the same weight as a final order.... Mum may decide to ignore it & she doe's so at her own peril, BUT as for the child care center, a direction from mum (or dad) does NOT take precedence over the order, OR the general obligations to compel EVERYBODY to not hinder it's directions... So when you do meet again with the director of this center, bring their attention again to the orders, & then inform (remind?) them of these sections of the family law act, & how their actions are in total breach of it...

FAMILY LAW ACT 1975 - SECT 65M General obligations created by parenting order that deals with whom a child lives with

FAMILY LAW ACT 1975 - SECT 65N General obligations created by parenting order that deals with whom a child spends time with

FAMILY LAW ACT 1975 - SECT 65NA General obligations created by parenting order that deals with whom a child communicates with

FAMILY LAW ACT 1975 - SECT 65P General obligations created by parenting order that allocates parental responsibility

Unless there is something in regulation that gives them clear authority to disregard (I doubt it)... then If they don't want to be in breach of a Commonwealth court order, perhaps they should tell mum that they are compelled under legislation to not hinder your access, or to not bring the child so they are not put in that position

I will ask them for another response... Using information you have provided.

Give them a chance to do right or keep going down the same path.

Thanks
 

sammy01

Well-Known Member
27 September 2015
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720
2,894
Atticus is the bomb - I'd be quoting that stuff in communication with pre-school.
right - you wanna ask for their explanation in writing so that you can take it up with the regulating authority... You write to them - ask for a written response...

You wanna read this thread

And consider ignoring my advice. Now this guy has final orders... It might be prudent to go easy here for the long term. Remember - You wanna show you're not sooo caught up in conflict you forget common sense.

But maybe you inform the centre of your intention to pick up the child at XXX as per court orders and that you'll not leave so they can call the cops. I reckon you go to the cop shop and have a chat with them about this.... If you get a good copper you might find they'll call the child care centre and give them a heads up that they are being tools.
 

gunnerzzzz

Well-Known Member
8 March 2020
54
0
196
Atticus is the bomb - I'd be quoting that stuff in communication with pre-school.
right - you wanna ask for their explanation in writing so that you can take it up with the regulating authority... You write to them - ask for a written response...

You wanna read this thread

And consider ignoring my advice. Now this guy has final orders... It might be prudent to go easy here for the long term. Remember - You wanna show you're not sooo caught up in conflict you forget common sense.

But maybe you inform the centre of your intention to pick up the child at XXX as per court orders and that you'll not leave so they can call the cops. I reckon you go to the cop shop and have a chat with them about this.... If you get a good copper you might find they'll call the child care centre and give them a heads up that they are being tools.
Thanks.

Unfortunately me doing that approach again will only risk

a) the centre will say I'm not welcome... After all it's their premises.

b) spoken with 3 sets of police in regards to trying to do something on this. Response is clear and the same. It's a federal court issue, not their jurisdiction.

c) the centre could act like I'm an issue to other children there... Disrupting the plans and causing risk. Plus I don't want to achieve that either. Other kids and there education have nothing to do with this.

d) then I'm opened up to what then comes under police jurisdiction from whatever they wish to say.

Can't go back there without an all clear from the centre or an organisation with the power to over rule. It only will create problems for me, no matter what the reason is for going there is.
 

Atticus

Well-Known Member
6 February 2019
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the centre could act like I'm an issue to other children there... Disrupting the plans and causing risk. Plus I don't want to achieve that either. Other kids and there education have nothing to do with this.
Good point... Don't want to give them ANY reason to call cops & make a complaint naming you, it will play totally into your ex's hands.... I would only go there at their invitation ATM to meet with authorised person to discuss these access issues.... If there is no invitation to do that then you'll have to do it via email (paper trail), but most definitely take them to task on this & get them to jusrtify thier actions with something other than "because that is what we are doing"
 

GlassHalfFull

Well-Known Member
28 August 2018
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2,289
I have a somewhat similar situation to you gunnerzzzz. Not exactly, but due to false allegations, I was under supervised access for a while and one of those days per week was while the children were at daycare. I felt like that established the attitude of the daycare centre towards me so that even when the allegations were essentially dismissed and the risk was determined to be low, I got the supervision removed and equal shared parental responsibility was upheld but I still felt like for some time, the daycare centre were not treating me like an equal parent. Because my orders only gave me specific hours on specific days, I was totally excluded from communications and special events (fathers day dinner, etc). I didn't even know they were having a fathers day event until the day of it, and of course as it was in the evening, it fell under time that my ex had so unless I could get to her to consent to the children attending with me with just hours notice (she would never agree to anything she didn't have to), I couldn't do it. They also would not give me the door code to the building, despite the fact that every other parent was given it, so I was forced to wait for staff to open it for me. I was being treated like a second class parent.

The daycare centre also said they were responsible for enforcing court orders, despite the fact that my understanding is that it is not their responsibility. They should obviously be AWARE of court orders, and alert the other parent if there is a breach of them, but should not interfere with parental contact unless they identify a genuine safety issue.


The above article seems to agree with me on that point, although it appears there is still confusion out there because some other articles/guidelines say otherwise. A recent discussion with a family report writer revealed they also thought it was the daycare's responsibility to enforce court orders... Confusion reigns.

Ultimately though, over time, the daycare has realised that I have no intention of breaching the orders and simply want to be an involved parent and I'm hoping things will be better in 2020. I can only reiterate the advice you've been given and what you've realised yourself... Be firm but don't appear aggressive or confrontational if possible, because that's only likely to make them worry you'll storm in and abduct your child out of nowhere - a nightmare scenario for any daycare centre. :eek:;) Parents shouldn't have to walk on egg shells to have the contact with their children that they deserve and the court has already ordered, but there you go. It's all part of a biased and unfair system that we have to navigate. Not to make everything genderised, but we live in a world where mums are assumed to be better parents, where dads are all potentially domestic violence perpetrators, and most daycare staff are female. It's not surprising that they will see things through their own tinted lens.