He has seen drafts of the parenting plan by consent orders numerous times, and has only requested very minor changes. The draft with his solicitor and himself now is with all amendments, but my gut is telling me he will now just refuse to sign. Even though it is 2 years in the making now and costing me money I don't have, and he will just do this to create more stress and drama and make our lives further hell.
VIC Parenting Plan - Mental and Emotional Abuse by Father?
- Thread starter Protectingmydd
- Start date
He has seen drafts of the parenting plan by consent orders numerous times, and has only requested very minor changes. The draft with his solicitor and himself now is with all amendments, but my gut is telling me he will now just refuse to sign. Even though it is 2 years in the making now and costing me money I don't have, and he will just do this to create more stress and drama and make our lives further hell.
Again, forgive me, but the father asking the child not to disclose an address is mediocre parenting, maybe, but abuse? Not even close. In fact, more alarm bells are sounded in my mind by the fact that you're calling this abuse, when it's actually a very trivial matter that will resolve itself in good time.
At this stage, dad doesn't have to tell you his address, or any other address, for that matter - again, mediocre parenting, but not an obligation on his part. Further, it is his responsibility to know where the child is during her time with him, not yours.
At this stage, dad doesn't have to tell you his address, or any other address, for that matter - again, mediocre parenting, but not an obligation on his part. Further, it is his responsibility to know where the child is during her time with him, not yours.
No legal help. But yep, kinda agree...with the others.
But what have you done? A nice email suggesting that the child not be compelled to hide information? Maybe even an emails suggesting a mutual approach to conversations about the situation...? Maybe even tell dad via email that you intend to tell the child XXX and YYY and ask for his input...? Or have you sat on your hands hoping consent orders will fix it?
Consent orders are pieces of paper, good for making paper planes out of, but useless in changing behaviour.
Telling a child not to tell mum isn't abuse... Bad form, yep, bad parenting maybe... So this is all a big stupid game. He knows you want the address. He is just playing with you. He is playing his game better... Sorry... But read your post again.
The game you're playing is the victim game... He is doing this to cost you money. He is this, he is that... He is abusive, he is blah blah blah... (bit of tough love today).... Change the game, or at least play it differently.
Now feel free to ignore my opinion. But hey, I took some time out of my precious to give you a few suggestions. Like I said, dismiss it as some fool ranting on the internet
But what have you done? A nice email suggesting that the child not be compelled to hide information? Maybe even an emails suggesting a mutual approach to conversations about the situation...? Maybe even tell dad via email that you intend to tell the child XXX and YYY and ask for his input...? Or have you sat on your hands hoping consent orders will fix it?
Consent orders are pieces of paper, good for making paper planes out of, but useless in changing behaviour.
Telling a child not to tell mum isn't abuse... Bad form, yep, bad parenting maybe... So this is all a big stupid game. He knows you want the address. He is just playing with you. He is playing his game better... Sorry... But read your post again.
The game you're playing is the victim game... He is doing this to cost you money. He is this, he is that... He is abusive, he is blah blah blah... (bit of tough love today).... Change the game, or at least play it differently.
Now feel free to ignore my opinion. But hey, I took some time out of my precious to give you a few suggestions. Like I said, dismiss it as some fool ranting on the internet
I agree that sometimes taking the high road and picking your battles in this silly game we play is key, but I would have thought specifically telling your child not to tell the other parent something would be damaging to the child, especially if it's continually happening about every aspect of the child's life.
And in family law terms - not facilitating a meaningful relationship with the other parent... Is it just "bad form/poor parenting"? Or a form of parental alienation? (I wouldn't go so far as to say abuse, but definitely damaging...)
I don't mean to be dramatic but I am constantly getting this and wondering if I'm doing the wrong thing by the kids by ignoring it. Even simple questions like "Did you have fun at xxx?" the response from child A is "I can't tell you" to which child B says to child A "Shh, you're not allowed to tell mum". I have started asking the kids absolutely nothing about their time with their dad. Instead focusing on my time with them. It's sad and I think potentially a safety issue.
Others' thoughts?
And in family law terms - not facilitating a meaningful relationship with the other parent... Is it just "bad form/poor parenting"? Or a form of parental alienation? (I wouldn't go so far as to say abuse, but definitely damaging...)
I don't mean to be dramatic but I am constantly getting this and wondering if I'm doing the wrong thing by the kids by ignoring it. Even simple questions like "Did you have fun at xxx?" the response from child A is "I can't tell you" to which child B says to child A "Shh, you're not allowed to tell mum". I have started asking the kids absolutely nothing about their time with their dad. Instead focusing on my time with them. It's sad and I think potentially a safety issue.
Others' thoughts?
We have an order that says that the parents are not to ask the children about the private life of the other parent. This means we can (theoretically) still ask questions about activities they have done with the other parent. Even this doesn't always work though. My ex took my kids to have Christmas dinner with my daughter from my first marriage (my younger kids' half sister/my ex's former stepdaughter). I asked my younger kids on the telephone if they enjoyed having dinner with their sister, and my ex took the phone off them and hung up, then sent me various text messages alleging that I was using the kids to get personal information about my older daughter and that I should call my daughter if I want to know how she is.
I wouldn't call my ex abusive for that though. It's not good parenting and a little unhinged, but it's not abuse.
I have an intense dislike of labelling this type of behaviour as abusive. Just describe the behaviour, there is no need to give it a conclusive label like "abuse".
Also the courts in Australia do not accept that parental alienation is a thing, so I wouldn't use that term in any proceedings. Again, describe the behaviour. No need to label it as "parental alienation", the behaviour is what it is.
Bad parenting? Yep.
Abuse? Nope.
Parental alientation? Nope...
Damaging? Bloody oath. But basically everything about two people who can't sort their sh*t out to live together and raise their kids is damaging... Mind you, so is staying in a relationship that has gone to sh*t...
So if the nicely worded email don't work... then don't play. Don't ask a damn thing.... There is only so much you have control over in this world... But I'd suggest by asking anything you're kinda re-enforcing dad's perspective that you have to hide stuff from mum... Don't play... And wait for the kids to work out for themselves that dad is being irrational.
Abuse? Nope.
Parental alientation? Nope...
Damaging? Bloody oath. But basically everything about two people who can't sort their sh*t out to live together and raise their kids is damaging... Mind you, so is staying in a relationship that has gone to sh*t...
So if the nicely worded email don't work... then don't play. Don't ask a damn thing.... There is only so much you have control over in this world... But I'd suggest by asking anything you're kinda re-enforcing dad's perspective that you have to hide stuff from mum... Don't play... And wait for the kids to work out for themselves that dad is being irrational.
I also have a particular aversion to labels on behaviours and incidents when it comes to Court matters. I've said it many times before - the Court deals in facts, not speculation, and labels posted by a party in family law is always speculation. It's the actual behaviour or incident that's the fact, and it's up to the judge to decide what label is appropriate for that particular behaviour or incident.
So, my thoughts.
Telling kids to keep some secret is maybe poor form, but the reasons parents have provided for doing this are not always that farfetched, either.
Let's say dad takes the child 4x4ing. Child excitedly tells mum about 4x4ing, mum decides 4x4ing is too dangerous for child and slams dad accordingly. Dad knows the child is not in any danger, so dad continues taking child 4x4ing, but tells child not to tell mum so they can both avoid the drama.
Another example, let's say parents share first right of refusal for care of child when the other is unavailable. Mum sees on social media that child is spending time in paternal family's care while dad is at work, so mum advises dad that she is available to care for child. Dad then tells maternal family and child not to tell mum who collects child from school so mum doesn't know when dad is skipping out of his first right of refusal obligations.
I'm not saying this is ordinary parental behaviour, but it is not that uncommon, either, and quite often, I find myself asking whose behaviour is worse - mum who slams dad for taking the kid 4x4ing, or dad whose response is to tell the child to keep secrets from mum. The worst ones for me are actually the ones who believe themselves to be completely innocent of any wrongdoing.
The key point, though, is that both parents are making perceptively poor choices that achieve naught but to make life very difficult for the child in question. Mum's making the kid feel guilty about enjoying 4x4ing, dad's making the kid feel guilty for telling mum about it.
Both parents in this hypothetical situation are putting the child into a tug of war that results in zero winners, but it's the kid who loses the most.
So, my thoughts.
Telling kids to keep some secret is maybe poor form, but the reasons parents have provided for doing this are not always that farfetched, either.
Let's say dad takes the child 4x4ing. Child excitedly tells mum about 4x4ing, mum decides 4x4ing is too dangerous for child and slams dad accordingly. Dad knows the child is not in any danger, so dad continues taking child 4x4ing, but tells child not to tell mum so they can both avoid the drama.
Another example, let's say parents share first right of refusal for care of child when the other is unavailable. Mum sees on social media that child is spending time in paternal family's care while dad is at work, so mum advises dad that she is available to care for child. Dad then tells maternal family and child not to tell mum who collects child from school so mum doesn't know when dad is skipping out of his first right of refusal obligations.
I'm not saying this is ordinary parental behaviour, but it is not that uncommon, either, and quite often, I find myself asking whose behaviour is worse - mum who slams dad for taking the kid 4x4ing, or dad whose response is to tell the child to keep secrets from mum. The worst ones for me are actually the ones who believe themselves to be completely innocent of any wrongdoing.
The key point, though, is that both parents are making perceptively poor choices that achieve naught but to make life very difficult for the child in question. Mum's making the kid feel guilty about enjoying 4x4ing, dad's making the kid feel guilty for telling mum about it.
Both parents in this hypothetical situation are putting the child into a tug of war that results in zero winners, but it's the kid who loses the most.
I agree both parents would be wrong, however I see the greater fault being with the parent trying to control what happens when the child/ren is at the other parent's house.
None of their business - most of the time.
None of their business - most of the time.
welcome to the world of some parents who cant seem to get on with their own lives i am 16 months into it and i still cant get a parenting plan signed.
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