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hesaliar

Member
25 April 2019
2
0
1
I have a situation in which I have been accused of trespass on 2 occasions now by my ex-husband.

The first situation involved a breach of court orders in which he had failed to provide 7 days notice that he had moved houses. I knew he had moved because the children (who are with him about 40% of the time) had told me very excitedly that they had moved all of their belongings into their 'new' house and had gone into great detail about the removalists coming and that daddy would be living there from X date.

When I noted the breach to his lawyer (there have been many many breaches in this highly antagonistic divorce) I immediately received 'notice' ignoring my letter and asserting that the 'move' would not happen for another 7 days.

On the day in question, I dropped the children to school and drove past the new house. He was clearly in residence, his car & his secretaries car were there and they were loading empty (flattened) boxes into a moving van.

So I went to the former rental property - which was vacant, save for some boxes I could see through the window.

As I was leaving the secretary drove up followed by the removal van and blocked me in the driveway. She approached me and demanded to know what I was doing. I felt intimidated and threatened and I asked her to move to allow me room to get my car out. Rather than pull over, she reversed down the driveway taking photographs as she went.

Question: Is this trespass?

On the second occasion - I stopped to talk to a tradesperson on the road outside his house. I did not enter his property. The tradesperson was located some way up the street, I did not discuss my ex-husband in any way shape or form with the tradesperson, rather I was enquiring about the services of the tradesperson for my own purposes. On this occasion, he again accused me of trespass but also of stalking, harassment & intimidation.

I have had a restraining order on him because when we separated not only did he refuse to move out of the house but he refused to move out of the bed. For 7 months he stalked me at home. Where previously he would leave for work at 4am and not return until 6pm - he began turning up at all times during the day, not entering through the front door as was his habit but rather creeping down the side to the back entrance where he could see what I was doing - big glass windows, no curtains. He would enter and stand over me and laugh, "haha trying to get your defences sorted are you?' he told me that even if we sorted the finances he would not move out. He told me that.
 

sammy01

Well-Known Member
27 September 2015
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663
2,894
You're not gonna like my answer... But I suggest you get a nice cuppa tea to sit down and realise that while you're not gonna like it - the information is good, well-intentioned and I've spent my time writing it, so maybe, just maybe you need to suck it up.

He has 7 days to tell you about a move... Do you know when the rental agreement ended in the old place? Nope, of course, you don't... So you went to his old place? where there were boxes? So he had not fully vacated? He had more boxes to collect? So legally that was still his place. He has 7 days from that rental agreement to end before he needed to tell you anything.

So have you committed trespass? Yes - Twice. You had no business going to look through the window of the place he was vacating and you had no business going to the new place. None what so ever...

I told you that you were not going to like my answers...
So tell me where in your court orders does it say that in the event that you suspect the ex has moved that you're entitled to make yourself your own private investigator/police office in order to investigate where he might have moved? It doesn't - true?

You drove past the ex's new place? Do you live in a town with only one street? Are you claiming it was a coincidence, just happened to drive past?

What would happen if the ex rocked up to your place? looked through the windows? you'd have him arrested for stalking and breach of AVO. True... But it is ok for you to do the same? hell no...

So you got your solicitor to write a letter? his solicitor had to write a response? Well, collectively you've both blown about $1500 on legal fees and for what?

How is your cuppa going? Might want to put the kettle on... I told you that you were not gonna like the advice - But suck it up because it is gonna get worse...

As far as talking to a tradie goes... I reckon given the situation, it seems reasonable for the ex to think you were talking to the tradie for dishonest purposes... Your story - I was just stalking my ex (and that is exactly what it was) when I saw a tradie and remembered I need a plumber, so I stopped stalking and started chatting to the tradie...

Or his story - You were stalking him. You saw a tradie a few doors up and started talking to the tradie. Now your ex can't possibly know what you were talking about, but it is reasonable to suspect you were talking to the tradie about him...

Finally, he refused to leave the house/bed... Well so did you... That is right, you could have moved out. Most solicitors will advise that you do not leave a residence when you have a legal responsibility to maintain. Basically, don't move out until there is an agreement. So why do you think the ex should have moved out?

The final piece of suggestion - take a chill pill. If the ex doesn't tell you the new address after 3 weeks, well that is an issue - but take it up with the solicitors, you have no right to enter his property. Guess what... Your ex has enough on you to get an AVO out against you... You should consider yourself very lucky that he has chosen not to go down that avenue. But keep up this sort of stuff and you can expect the coppers to come to a knocking...

So you've said this is highly antagonistic... Well based on what you've written you're guilty of being antagonistic.... So my advice - chill out - relax. So I went through this crap about 7 yrs ago. If there is one thing I learnt - one piece of advice I can give it is this - chill pill. like you and your ex, me and my ex did some dumb stuff. Even resulting in a few really bad performances in front of the kids... I'm a big enough person to admit some of my antics were poor form. When I realised that and started working on my chill pill philosophy - my life got better.

So by way of example - I stopped caring if the ex was 20 minutes late, or forgot to pack clothes for the kids, or threw dirty underwear at me while yelling that I need to be a better dad (while the kids started crying). I started being nice to the ex. Over the top nice - She continued to act like a twit...
The benefits of my approach? Gee glad you asked:

1 - the kids started to see me as the sane one. They were torn between two parents, BUT one parent said he loved them, one parent said he loved their mum but it is best to live apart so we don't fight... The other parent told the kids that their dad is evil... The kids disagreed with this assessment and resented their mum for being so mean about dad.

2 - My blood pressure went back to normal. This s**t is stressful - it makes you do stupid stuff like peering into houses that you've got no business peering into. It is irrational and stupid. Once I learned to relax a bit my mental health improved.

3 - I won... My ex is still bitter, I've moved on. I have a good life and she is still nasty and vindictive.

4 - I won CPT 2... When the ex tried to move 5 hours away with the kids she tried to make the case that she had to move away because I"m a big ol' Mr Meanie... Her case? I'm the devil and the courts need to let her move away and take the kids because I am dangerous. She left - but the kids stayed with me...

Absolute final thought - you had to take an avo against him? Presumably, that includes a rule that he can't come near you unless it is to pick up the kids? You need protecting? But you went near him? Can you see how that looks dodgy?

Rant over -
 

Rod

Lawyer
LawTap Verified
27 May 2014
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942
2,894
re: your question about trespass.

First event: Probably. You had no business being on the old property knowing your ex was at the new property. But, whether the police will do anything about a criminal trespass charge is another issue. They may consider it a minor matter. The ex could mount a civil trespass case, but will he?

Second event: No.

re: Sammy's post. I'd have worded my response differently but the gist of it is correct. Move on with your life and forget about the ex in everything except for kid changeovers.
 

hesaliar

Member
25 April 2019
2
0
1
Appreciate your response Sammy. I'm sure it was meant to come from a good place but seems to me like you might have just assumed a whole bunch of stuff that applied to your situation also applied to mine. You are clearly not a lawyer or involved in legal work and from what you say your situation is resolved - so tell me, why are you on this forum? You claim she is the one that is bitter?

Hope you haven't thrown away those chill pills Sammy. Here's an idea, why don't you sit your self down with a nice cuppa tea and have yourself a few of those chill pills before you launch your next attack (all of us are just as wounded as you are Sammy). If you truly had found your chill-zone Sammy, you wouldn't be on this forum reliving your past by raging at others in similar plights. I feel for your kids. If you truly have their best interest at heart you'd get your self some help to work through your anger. But you're not going to do that are you Sammy? You know best.

That's why you spend so much time on this site exercising your feeble sarcasm and telling others to 'suck it up' while failing to own up to the fact that you don't have the balls to do that very thing. You say you're a big man? Well, I hope you are big enough to tell the kids that their mum loves them and not just what a hero you are (not!). You did demonstrate something useful though and that is that this forum is inhabited by self-serving trolls. No need to waste any more time on it then. Ah well. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

Night Sammy.




You're not gonna like my answer... But I suggest you get a nice cuppa tea sit down and realise that while you're not gonna like it - the advice is good, well intentioned and I've spent my time writing it, so maybe, just maybe you need to suck it up.

He has 7 days to tell you about a move... Do you know when the rental agreement ended on the old place? Nope, of course you don't... So you went to his old place? where there were boxes? So he had not fully vacated? He had more boxes to collect? So legally that was still his place. He has 7 days from that rental agreement to end before he needed to tell you anything.

So have you commited tresspass? YES - Twice. You had no business going to look through the window of the place he was vacating and you had no business going to the new place. NONE WHAT SO EVER...
i told you that you were not going to like my answers....
So tell me where in your court orders does it say that in the event that you suspect the ex has moved that you're entitled to make yourself your own private investigator / police office in order to investigage where he might have moved? It doesn't - true?

You drove past the ex's new place? Do you live in a town with only one street? ARe you claiming it was a co-incidence, just happened to drive past?

What would happen if the ex rocked up to your place? looked through the windows? you'd have him arrested for stalking and breach of AVO. True... But it is ok for you to do the same? hell no...

So you got your solicitor to write a letter? his solicitor had to write a response? Well collectively you've both blown about $1500 on legal fees and for WHAT?

How is your cuppa going? Might want to put the kettle on.... I told you that you were not gonna like the advice - But suck it up because it is gonna get worse...

As far as talking to a tradie goes... I reckon given the situation, it seems reasonable for the ex to think you were talking to the tradie for dishonest purposes... Your story - I was just stalking my ex (and that is exactly what it was) when I saw a tradie and remembered I need a plumber, so I stopped stalking and started chatting to the tradie.... OR his story - YOU WERE STALKING HIM. You saw a tradie a few doors up and started talking to the tradie. Now your ex can't possibly know what you were talking about, but it is reasonable to suspect you were talking to the tradie about him...

Finally, he refused to leave the house / bed... Well so did you... That is right, you could have moved out. Most solicitors will advise that you do not leave a residence when you have a legal responsibilty to maintain. Basically, don't move out until there is an agreement. So why do you think the ex should have moved out?

Final piece of advice - Take a chill pill. If the ex doesn't tell you the new address after 3 weeks, well that is an issue - but take it up with the solicitors, you have no right to enter his property. Guess what... Your ex has enough on you to get an AVO out againt you... You should consider yourself very lucky that he has chosen NOT to go down that avenue. But keep up this sort of stuff and you can expect the coppers to come a knocking...

So you've said this is highly antagonistic... Well based on what you've written you're guilty of being antagonistic.... So my advice - chill out - relax. So I went through this crap about 7 yrs ago. If there is one thing I learnt - one piece of advice I can give it is this - CHILL PILL. like you and your ex, me and my ex did some dumb stuff. Even resulting in a few really bad performances in front of the kids... I'm a big enough person to admit some of my antics were poor form. When I realised that and started working on my CHILL PILL philosophy - my life got better. So by way of example - I stopped caring if the ex was 20 minutes late, or forgot to pack clothes for the kids, or threw dirty underwear at me while yelling that I need to be a better dad (while the kids started crying). I started being nice to the ex. Over the top nice - She continued to act like a twit...
The beneifits of my approach? Gee glad you asked:
1 - the kids started to see me as the sane one. They were torn between two parents, BUT one parent said he loved them, one parent said he loved their mum but it is best to live apart so we don't fight... The other parent told the kids that their dad is evil.... The kids disagreed with this assessement and resented their mum for being so mean about dad.
2 - My blood pressure went back to normal. This s**t is stressful - It make you do stupid stuff like peering into housese that you've got NO business peering into. It is irational and stupid. Once i learned to relax a bit my mental health improved.
3 - I won... My ex is still bitter, I've moved on. I have a good life and she is still nasty and vindictive.
4 - I won cpt 2... When the ex tried to move 5 hours away with the kids she tried to make the case that she had to move away because I"m a big ol' mr MEANIE... Her case? I'm the devil and the courts need to let her move away and take the kids because I am dangerous. She left - but the kids stayed with me....

Absolute final thought - you had to take an avo against him? presumably that includes a rule that he can't come near you unless it is to pick up the kids? You need protecting? But you went near him? Can you see how that looks dodgy?
rant over -
 

sammy01

Well-Known Member
27 September 2015
4,632
663
2,894
Nope, you're right. I'm wrong - all apologies. Of course, there is nothing wrong with peering through the windows of someone's house. Nope, that is perfectly normal behaviour. I do it all the time...

That is sarcasm...

Read this.

Marriages Come and Go, but High-Conflict Divorce Is Forever

You said in your post that this is a high conflict divorce. My advice was simply to do all you can try to minimise conflict... IF you don't want to then you're welcome to continue with the high conflict. It will cause your blood pressure to go up and that can cause premature death. Did I mention my advice was well intentioned? feel free to ignore the chill pill theory.

My kids are fine thanks and it is poor form to go there. Shame on you. Yep, I tell them their mum loves them. They hear it lots. I do think I mentioned this in my first post... I could tell them the truth, mum abandoned them. she left moved 5 hours away.

Finally, I don't exactly understand what part of my advice you disagree with? I'd really love to know... The bit where I suggested that peeping through windows is wrong? the bit where I suggested you've wasted $$ that you could spend on your kids, but you chose to waste on solicitors. Or the bit where I suggested a little bit of yoga is a good prescription.

Plan B - Prove me wrong.

Go outside, walk up the street, find a house with some lights on, look through the window. Stay there till the police arrive. There you go, you'll find out if what you've done is considered trespass. Make sure you get back to me once you get released from custody...

Or take a chill pill. Spend less on solicitors and spend more time, energy and money nurturing your kids... No sarcasm there.