Hi Guys.. Spoke with David Collinson late afternoon, he is fairly upbeat about things going forward with his plans as outlined previously, he has good intentions and hopes to make those who lost money whole. All things take time and this is certainly going to take a little time yet. I wouldn't want to build up expectations too early, there is every possibility in seeing your money, this is totally dependent on David and his efforts, a bit of luck, learning from past mistakes and hopefully not too much damage from the past affecting the future. Despite best efforts of the owners, many businesses of all types fail everyday, either through being under-capitalized from the start, cash-flow issues, bad luck, bad management and a combination of these. Obviously every little detail of what he is doing cannot be discussed here and would serve no immediate purpose but he has promised to talk again soon to update and I will in kind update you.
NSW Non-Delivery of Purchased Bitcoins from Bitxoin
- Thread starter Jezza90
- Start date
Update...David is has contacted me, things are moving forward, he has requested I sign a confidentiality agreement soon which I am happy to do so. He will then send me a list of disaffected customers and through me will get me to contact and update all and will be made whole as previously outlined. Whilst it may be some work for me, you don't have to receive or expect payment for everything you do. By doing good on his promises he hopes to gain some positive online chatter as he well know that the internet can bolster or damage any business. He did expressed some concern regarding some people talking with Kye White the internet reporter, who I did speak to, but was unwilling to say anything which would damage the people here as it would serve no real purpose to have a few words published that could have a lingering effect and stop people receiving what they are rightfully entitled to. Kye who is a lovely bloke I am sure, may get a quick story but people could lose their funds completely if David is knocked down so that he cant get back up again. In my long experience of companies that get into difficulty, not many get out of receivership and hardly anyone receives anything other than the liquidators who take so much in fees. Some businesses get up again with a new name as if nothing happened and past creditors receive nothing. In this type of business credibility reputation and trust is paramount and so it is in Davids interest to see he does the right thing. Will send short updates when I have something whether here or via email Regards To all Bruce
Hi @Norm,
Having watched this thread since @Jezza90's original post, I have three questions that are yet to be answered by @DavidC:
Having watched this thread since @Jezza90's original post, I have three questions that are yet to be answered by @DavidC:
- Where are the funds deposited to Bitxoin Pty Ltd by unsuspecting Bitxoin customers?
- If the deposits were used for a purpose other than supplying Bitcoins to Bitxoin customers, how were the deposits used?
- I note that Bitxoin Pty Ltd is still not under external administration. If Bitxoin is trading insolvent and timely refinancing or recapitalisation is not possible, why hasn't Bitxoin Pty Ltd been placed into external administration by David COLLINSON, as its sole company director? Further information: ASIC - Directors and Insolvency.
I will ask your questions and see what answers can willingly be obtained in a sensitive period. My understanding is Bitxoin will not be the entity going into the future and not currently trading. He will no doubt see your post.
Thanks for going to the extra effort Norm, I completely understand how frustrating this whole situation is for you as i too am involved.
The lack of communication especially when David said he would keep us informed is quite annoying. It leaves us to make assumptions on the legitimacy of his moving forward plans.
Have you had any response with your latest questions? I am sure David has read these latest posts and your relative correspondence.
I am speaking on behalf of a few people.
The lack of communication especially when David said he would keep us informed is quite annoying. It leaves us to make assumptions on the legitimacy of his moving forward plans.
Have you had any response with your latest questions? I am sure David has read these latest posts and your relative correspondence.
I am speaking on behalf of a few people.
Okay guys John R asked questions and I put them to David
Q. Where are the funds deposited to Bitxoin Pty Ltd by unsuspecting Bitxoin customers?
A. The company did not maintain accounts for 'customer funds' rather, as is the norm for most any business, incoming funds from operations are booked to revenue AND, from there, corporate treasury management assumes control, making disbursements as and when required. In short, there is no specific 'money pot' if you will.
Q. If the deposits were used for a purpose other than supplying Bitcoins to Bitxoin customers, how were the deposits used?
A. Following response to the previous question, once funds hit bank, they are consolidated and losing the distinctiveness required to track their subsequent usage any further.
eg #1. If Alice deposits $1,200 and Bob deposits $300 and the bank deducts a fee of $250, given an opening balance of $50 and closing balance of $1,300, how much of Alice's money is still in the bank?
- answer is "uncertain though at least $950"
I am not at liberty to provide a complete balance sheet at the time of writing however, suffice to say, net liabilities are in the range of $150K to $300K. Of this, less than 10% relates to Unearned Revenue (being "disaffected customers").
Q. I note that Bitxoin Pty Ltd is still not under external administration. If Bitxoin is trading insolvent and timely refinancing or recapitalisation is not possible, why hasn't Bitxoin Pty Ltd been placed into external administration by David COLLINSON, as its sole company director?
The Company (BITXOIN PTY LTD) is not trading. External administrators require payment. At the time of writing, so far as I am aware, no parties have sought to instigate proceedings that would allow them to appoint external administrators. In my personal view, this is probably because no one is prepared to fund the professional fees required for this sort of a process (noting that approx $10,000 is required to secure an engagement and get the file opened at current market rates so far as I am aware & up-to-date).
Whilst I have no axe to grind and trying to be helpful all round ..but comment.
It is very unfortunate that as far as funds are concerned, they were going into general funds as in a normal business, because in effect this is not a normal business. Really it is a money exchange business just as you go to the airport or the bank or money changes on the street in Bali ...and give Australian Dollars and in return immediately get the other currency in your hand. Everybody who handed money over the internet were not buying any goods or services and quite rightly had a 100% expectation of receiving what was promised in return. The internet has good things and bad things about it and sometimes people pay money and don't receive goods or the goods are not quite what you inspected as you did not see them, feel them and try them out or on. The internet allows countless safe transactions each minute of the day but also allows people to get some misplaced confidence that in all cases everything will be okay. The standard way of going to a counter and paying for goods that you have in your hand for most transactions has gone and now people buy stuff interstate and overseas all the time but the old adage buyer beware still applies. Whilst a crime was not committed in the true sense, white collar crime is massive worldwide and a lot of money is lost each year. David is of the opinion that this thread could have caused some transactions not to have gone through and an amount of $200K mentioned. I am of the opinion that whilst it is a possibility, this is also very unlikely. It would take a lot of confidence to send $200K through the internet. I only found this thread when it was brought to my attention after the money was lost which was before this thread appeared. I was doing some digging and talked to a few people.
Q. Where are the funds deposited to Bitxoin Pty Ltd by unsuspecting Bitxoin customers?
A. The company did not maintain accounts for 'customer funds' rather, as is the norm for most any business, incoming funds from operations are booked to revenue AND, from there, corporate treasury management assumes control, making disbursements as and when required. In short, there is no specific 'money pot' if you will.
Q. If the deposits were used for a purpose other than supplying Bitcoins to Bitxoin customers, how were the deposits used?
A. Following response to the previous question, once funds hit bank, they are consolidated and losing the distinctiveness required to track their subsequent usage any further.
eg #1. If Alice deposits $1,200 and Bob deposits $300 and the bank deducts a fee of $250, given an opening balance of $50 and closing balance of $1,300, how much of Alice's money is still in the bank?
- answer is "uncertain though at least $950"
I am not at liberty to provide a complete balance sheet at the time of writing however, suffice to say, net liabilities are in the range of $150K to $300K. Of this, less than 10% relates to Unearned Revenue (being "disaffected customers").
Q. I note that Bitxoin Pty Ltd is still not under external administration. If Bitxoin is trading insolvent and timely refinancing or recapitalisation is not possible, why hasn't Bitxoin Pty Ltd been placed into external administration by David COLLINSON, as its sole company director?
The Company (BITXOIN PTY LTD) is not trading. External administrators require payment. At the time of writing, so far as I am aware, no parties have sought to instigate proceedings that would allow them to appoint external administrators. In my personal view, this is probably because no one is prepared to fund the professional fees required for this sort of a process (noting that approx $10,000 is required to secure an engagement and get the file opened at current market rates so far as I am aware & up-to-date).
Whilst I have no axe to grind and trying to be helpful all round ..but comment.
It is very unfortunate that as far as funds are concerned, they were going into general funds as in a normal business, because in effect this is not a normal business. Really it is a money exchange business just as you go to the airport or the bank or money changes on the street in Bali ...and give Australian Dollars and in return immediately get the other currency in your hand. Everybody who handed money over the internet were not buying any goods or services and quite rightly had a 100% expectation of receiving what was promised in return. The internet has good things and bad things about it and sometimes people pay money and don't receive goods or the goods are not quite what you inspected as you did not see them, feel them and try them out or on. The internet allows countless safe transactions each minute of the day but also allows people to get some misplaced confidence that in all cases everything will be okay. The standard way of going to a counter and paying for goods that you have in your hand for most transactions has gone and now people buy stuff interstate and overseas all the time but the old adage buyer beware still applies. Whilst a crime was not committed in the true sense, white collar crime is massive worldwide and a lot of money is lost each year. David is of the opinion that this thread could have caused some transactions not to have gone through and an amount of $200K mentioned. I am of the opinion that whilst it is a possibility, this is also very unlikely. It would take a lot of confidence to send $200K through the internet. I only found this thread when it was brought to my attention after the money was lost which was before this thread appeared. I was doing some digging and talked to a few people.
Similar threads
