NSW Forced to Have Her Baby Undergo a DNA Testing?

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Chris Black

Member
19 March 2018
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My daughter has a child to a mistake. She wants nothing to do with him. He has a history of promiscuity, has one child who is 4 years old, and one 7 months old to my daughter, and another due in one month to a girl he refuses to have anything to do with and whose baby he declares he wants nothing to do with.

He has a history of instability and violence. My daughter wants nothing to do with him and does not want him anywhere near her son. She did not register him on the birth certificate as the father. He has pressed for access and mediation.

She attended mediation today and though she objected to face-to-face mediation, this was apparently forced on her by the mediator. Under what she felt was intimidation, she signed a recognition that he was the father. She wants nothing from him in the way of child support. She also agreed to supervised access to the child under what she described as duress from the mediator, his lawyer and her legal aid representative.

Q1: Can she rescind the recognition of the father as she feels that she signed it under duress?

Q2: Can she refuse access to the child as she also agreed to this under duress? There is no signed document for this.

Q3: What is the procedure for some one wanting to prove paternity?

Q4: Can a court order the invasion (assault, maybe) of a minor without the permission of the parent to obtain DNA and how is this viewed under the Australian Constitution?

Q5: Does the Australian Constitution override stare Law?

Q6: If she refuses can the system jail her. She has two children 5 and 7 months old?

Q7: Can she be forcibly removed from her house and forced to make her infant son available for assault to obtain a DNA specimen for DNA testing?

I think that all this government intervention is a waste of time in most cases and yes, I am biased on my daughter's side, but I also know this character. For all the intervention, there are still so many cases of domestic abuse that continue because it appears that all concerned are happy to tick the box that a situation is resolved when it realy is not.

My daughter felt intimidated by the mediator (government employee) her representative, (government employee), his representative (government employee). So let's get this over with and we all go out to lunch. It's a joke.

How many people walk away from mediation that end up assaulted or even dead?

Hopefully you can answer some of my questions so that I can help my daughter to fight this to the end. I am not ant-anyone who is a reasonable person. I have an ex-son-in-law who I admire and respect, and who respects and supports my daughter and her two children. We just need help to get rid of a real rotten apple.

Many thanks
 

sammy01

Well-Known Member
27 September 2015
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Is the bloke the dad? Seems to be the case... You don't seem to be disputing it. Your dispute seems to be that you don't want him to be the dad. Go back to science class - I can't help you with the birds and the bees.

So this guy wants to see the kid. You guys have decided that he should not be allowed to see his own kid. Can you go to jail for that? Well, yes...

The family law act does have provisions within it to imprison someone. So if a court orders that mum provide access to dad and she refuses and refuses...Then the courts can order jail time...

Q1 - So she signed under duress. Well if her own solicitor was telling her to do it, then maybe it wasn't duress... Maybe she has gotten good legal advice. Just not the advice she wants to hear.

Q2 - Can she refuse to provide access? Sure, she can... But she has free legal aid. It is likely they will cancel her legal aid grant.

Q3 - Procedure for proving paternity... A court can order a paternity test. Nope, it is not assault and frankly the whole idea that a paternity test is assault of a minor is more than a little bit stupid.

Questions about the constitution... Don't bother. This isn't 'The Castle'. When the constitution was written paternity tests didn't exist.

You have asked how many people walk away from mediation assaulted or dead? Don't know... But not many.

Here is a question for you... How many blokes go to mediation, follow the correct channels do all that is required of them, just to get to spend time with their own kid? Let me answer for you... Lots.

This guy has followed all the correct channels. He hasn't tried to break into the house and steal the child away? Nope, he has followed the rules and because you don't like him you think you should be entitled to rely on the constitution of Australia to deprive a father of a relationship with his own child... Wow.

Mate read your post again... Go on, I dare ya. I'll give you the short version... It reads like this: What can my daughter do to keep the father of the child away from the child? Should she lie about the paternity of the child? Or is there a better way to keep a man from his kid? And why isn't the system helping my daughter?

I get it, you don't like the guy, he isn't up to your standards. If your daughter was prepared to have sex with him and prepared to have the baby that resulted... Well she should accept that the bloke should be allowed to have a relationship with his own child.
 
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Rod

Lawyer
LawTap Verified
27 May 2014
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I agree with Sammy's sentiments.

You seem to be equating your daughter's situation with that of the child. They are not the same and the court will only be concerned with the rights of the child. Until access for the father is shown not to be in the best interests of the child, then he should have access.

Specifically in relation to your questions:

1. Possibly. But having her own legal rep present means the chances are low to very low.

2. Yes. However adverse consequences can flow from this course of action if the matter ends up in court.

3.1. Do not know. Can be court ordered if necessary, but considering paternity was acknowledged at mediation I do not think this is going to be an issue anymore.

3.2 Forget trying to claim assault or protection under our toothless constitution that has next to no protection for human rights.

4. Short answer - yes. NB: Whole text books have been written on this issue.

5. Yes. Why should mothers with young children be granted immunity from our laws?

6. In extreme cases, yes. However I don't see it as necessary. The other side already has a signed bit of paper acknowledging paternity. I don't see her recanting affecting the way other people in authority will view this matter.

Civil disobedience as you are suggesting will only end badly for your daughter. I don't see how encouraging extreme views is helping your daughter and it may well be you are part of the problem. Maybe if you cannot accept the role a father has to play in their son's life you should not be part of the grandchild's life. Conflict like this is what sends kids to therapy.
 
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AllForHer

Well-Known Member
23 July 2014
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A history of instability and violence, eh?

Says who?

The cops?

The Court?
 

Chris Black

Member
19 March 2018
3
0
1
Is the bloke the dad? Seems to be the case... You don't seem to be disputing it... Your dispute seems to be that you don't want him to be the dad... Go back to science class - I can't help you with the birds and the bees.

So this guy wants to see the kid.. You guys have decided that he should not be allowed to see his own kid... Can you go to jail for that... Well yes... The family law act does have provisions within it to imprison someone.. So if a court orders that mum provide access to dad and she refuses and refuses.... Then the courts can order jail time...

Q1 -So she signed under duress. Well if her own solicitor was telling her to do it then maybe it wasn't duress... Maybe she has gotten good legal advice. Just not the advice she wants to hear.
Q2 - can she refuse to provide access. Sure she can... But she has free legal aid... It is likely they will cancel her legal aid grant.
Q3 procedure for proving paternity... A court can order a paternity test. Nope it is not assault and frankly the whole idea that a paternity test is assault of a minor is more than a little bit stupid.
Questions about the constitution.. Don't bother. This isn't 'the castle'... When the constitution was written paternity tests didn't exist.

You have asked how many people walk away from mediation assaulted or dead? don't know... But not many.... Here is a question for you... How many blokes go to mediation, follow the correct channels do all that is required of them, just to get to spend time with their own kid? Let me answer for you... LOTS.

This guy has followed all the correct channels. He hasn't tried to break into the house and steal the child away? Nope, he has followed the rules and because you don't like him you think you should be entitled to rely on the constitution of Australia to deprive a father of a relationship with his own child... WOW.
Mate read your post again... Go on dare ya. I'll give you the short version... It reads like this... What can my daughter do to keep the father of the child away from the child... Should she lie about the paternity of the child? or is there a better way to keep a man from his kid? and why isn't the system helping your daughter?
I get it, you don't like the guy, he isn't up to your standards. IF your daughter was prepared to have sex with him and prepared to have the baby that resulted... Well she should accept that the bloke should be allowed to have a relationship with his own child.
Yes, he has broken into her house. Yes, he has threatened to remove the child from her house at a week old. She was prepared to have sex with him but pill failure meant a baby. Your answer to how many people walk away from mediation assaulted or dead? Your answer "don't know", so how the hell do you know it's not many?
 

Chris Black

Member
19 March 2018
3
0
1
I agree with Sammy's sentiments.

You seem to be equating your daughter's situation with that of the child. They are not the same and the court will only be concerned with the rights of the child. Until access for the father is shown not to be in the best interests of the child, then he should have access.

Specifically in relation to your questions:
1. Possibly. But having her own legal rep present means the chances are low to very low.
2. Yes. However adverse consequences can flow from this course of action if the matter ends up in court.
3.1. Do not know. Can be court ordered if necessary, but considering paternity was acknowledged at mediation I do not think this is going to be an issue anymore.
3.2 Forget trying to claim assault or protection under our toothless constitution that has next to no protection for human rights.
4. Short answer - yes. NB: Whole text books have been written on this issue.
5. Yes. Why should mothers with young children be granted immunity from our laws?
6. In extreme cases, yes. However I don't see it as necessary. The other side already has a signed bit of paper acknowledging paternity. I don't see her recanting affecting the way other people in authority will view this matter.

Civil disobedience as you are suggesting will only end badly for your daughter. I don't see how encouraging extreme views is helping your daughter and it may well be you are part of the problem. Maybe if you cannot accept the role a father has to play in their son's life you should not be part of the grandchild's life. Conflict like this is what sends kids to therapy.
"Until access for the father is shown not to be in the best interests of the child? What about the father having to prove that access IS in the best interest of the child? What does he have to do to show that access is not in the best interest?
The father has 1 other child to another woman and another on the way with another woman that he declares he wants nothing to do with. I am not encouraging my daughter to do anything she must make up her own mind. I just asked the questions.
 

AllForHer

Well-Known Member
23 July 2014
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"Until access for the father is shown not to be in the best interests of the child? What about the father having to prove that access IS in the best interest of the child?
What does your daughter have to do to show that access with her is in the best interests of the child?

Mate, you need to understand that society's rhetoric of 'mum knows best', which is what you seem to be basing your argument on, has no place in the Court of law.

Neither the Court, nor the law, care for this kind of gender-based rhetoric when it comes to parenting. They don't care about mum's role, dad's role. They don't care about your daughter, or you, or even dad.

They care about one thing, and one thing only: the best interests of the child.

Now, contrary to popular belief, that phrase is not subjective - it's not open to interpretation. The law has a clear pathway for what it considers when determining the best interests of the child.

From section 60B:

The objects of this Part are to ensure that the best interests of children are met by ensuring that children have the benefit of both of their parents having a meaningful involvement in their lives, to the maximum extent consistent with the best interests of the child.​

Now, you seem to be working on the assumption that mum has rights as a parent to this child, but she does not. Only children have rights, as follows (also from section 60B):
(a) children have the right to know and be cared for by both their parents, regardless of whether their parents are married, separated, have never married or have never lived together; and
(b) children have a right to spend time on a regular basis with, and communicate on a regular basis with, both their parents and other people significant to their care, welfare and development (such as grandparents and other relatives).
You see, that child has a legal right to know, spend time and communicate with his father on a regular basis, regardless of how you, or your daughter, feels about him, and the Court will do its utmost to uphold that right as much as possible, consistent with the child's best interests.

When the Court is deciding the 'maximum extent consistent with the best interests of the child', it looks to section 60CC: FAMILY LAW ACT 1975 - SECT 60CC How a court determines what is in a child's best interests

You'll note that nowhere does it say anything about promiscuity being relevant to a child's best interests.

See, the bottom line is this: you don't have to like the father. You daughter doesn't have to like the father. But the child still has a legal right to have a relationship with him, and if dad asks it of the Court, the Court is going to defend that right as best it can.
 

sammy01

Well-Known Member
27 September 2015
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He broke into her house? Was he convicted? Did the police provide her with a protection order? If no - then it didn't happen as far as the law goes... Mate, you don't have to like my opinions, but it is accurate.

He threatened to remove the child. Well it is his child, too...and if it is in response to her refusing him the right to meet his own new born child... Well...again, don't have to like my opinions...but it is accurate. BTW isn't that exactly what she is doing. Removing the child from dad's life... But that is OK right, because you guys don't even like him?

How many people walk away from mediation assaulted or dead... Yep, don't know. Not many... How the hell do I know it is not many? I read the newspaper, mate and I'm well informed about how much effort the police and legal system have gone into keeping people safe. Sure there have been some horrific tragedies like the Rosie Baty case... But they are far from frequent.

Nope, I've changed my mind. Lots of men walk away from mediation dead... They commit suicide They are so distressed at the fact that their ex-partner is refusing them access to their own children... (sound familiar?)

Don't believe me? Have a read:

Mindframe

Of particular interest is this statement:

"Suicide rates reduced across many age groups, including a moderate reduction in suicide rates for males in the high risk age groups of 35-49 years." Good that there has been a moderate reduction... BAD that 35-49 is a high risk group."

Now - nobody is interested in funding the research so it is hard to know... But the male 35-49 age bracket is a high risk group... About the same age as many people find themselves in the family court system...

My point is this... My pound to your penny, I'm willing to bet more men wind up dead after mediation than women. These men are fathers that just want to have a meaningful relationship with their own kids and their ex-partner is refusing... (sound familiar?)

You have come here and asked if you can abuse the legal system - deny paternity and refuse a paternity test for the sole purpose of keeping a father away from his kid. The answer is no... Well kinda, the answer is yes. You can do all those things and lie through your teeth all the way while know he is the dad. You can do those things... But when the paternity test is ordered and it comes back positive, you will have zero credibility in the eyes of the court... and rightly bloody so.