NSW Speeding Fines from Non-traffic Cops?

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Lilly118

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18 July 2018
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Hi,

As per the title, I think I have a fine coming my way from a non-traffic policeman.

I was driving on a deserted country road, miles from anywhere and I was sitting on around 10-20km/h over the speed limit.

While I know I was speeding - I was remaining very safe, and there was no other traffic.

I came up behind an Hyundai SUV, and after waiting for a safe overtaking section, I sped up and overtook, reaching a maximum of 140km/h so as to safely complete the overtake and then slow back down to my cruising speed.

However in the process of slowing down, the Hyundai put up some red and blues and pulled me over.

Two cops jumped out in basic cop shirt and pants without any attachments - I believe they were coming from a remote gaol, and the guy came up to my window swearing his head off at me asking what I was doing.

They took my drivers licence and came back saying they were going to send me a fine for 20km/h over.

While this is not a big deal, and it was my stupid fault for over taking anyway, I just wanted to know if they were actually allowed to do this? I'm 100% certain they weren't traffic police, and definitely didn't have any radar or even a dash cam.

If I do get speeding fines from them, is it worth debating on the basis of no evidence?

I'd be glad of any thoughts as my licence is very important to me.
 

Rod

Lawyer
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27 May 2014
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Any police can issue traffic fines.

You have a good argument for saying you were under 20kmh over the limit as without police having time to tail you and properly estimate your speed, but you'd need to take it to court.

City people/cops have no idea what it is like driving on long safe boring country roads. New studies show drivers are more alert when travelling at higher speeds, but of course there's no revenue increasing speed limits in appropriate areas.
 

Bill Murray

Well-Known Member
6 June 2018
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City people/cops have no idea what it is like driving on long safe boring country roads. New studies show drivers are more alert when travelling at higher speeds, but of course there's no revenue increasing speed limits in appropriate areas.
To an extent I agree.

But unmarked cars are extremely obvious from behind and from in front when you are actually paying attention. The fact that someone can overtake an unmarked Police vehicle with uniformed officers in it without realising it's a Police vehicle tells me they ain't paying a huge amount of attention to their surroundings...
 

Adam1user

Well-Known Member
5 January 2018
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Hi,

I suggest you not to go to court as the fine will most properly stand and you may pay for court fees as well. Speeding and red light offences are serious offences and the magistrates will not back down unless you have a very good reason, for example: in speeding: if you are taking someone to hospital (as an example) and you will need proof to it, not just stating so (this is my understanding). Even when you were taking over, I don't see this as a good reason, but I may be wrong.

Although there are no dash cameras (or other type of proof) but you have the words of 2 police officers. I think this will be hard to dispute or argue in court. You may want to go to court, but in my opinion most properly the infringement will stand.

Other point to consider (in my opinion, from a practical side), the magistrate and police look at this from a safety point, when you drive in a country road, there are fewer people around and therefore the response time will be longer, in case you had an accident and did not call for help. Driving in the city for example, within few minutes help will be called.

I know this is not to your favor, but hopefully helps you out.

Good luck.
 

Rod

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But unmarked cars are extremely obvious from behind and from in front when you are actually paying attention. The fact that someone can overtake an unmarked Police vehicle with uniformed officers in it without realising it's a Police vehicle tells me they ain't paying a huge amount of attention to their surroundings...
I have done many many many country miles and lots of overtaking on country roads. I very rarely looked into the other car and was hyper-vigilant on ensuring the road stayed clear, no livestock/animals on verges, no unsighted dips on straight roads, nothing on road surface, and had adequate room and time to safely move back.

Only once did I make a mistake, and fortunately there was no accident for anyone. Though I feel sure the car I was passing sped up to deny me a safe pass.

the magistrate and police look at this from a safety point
No. Magistrates must only consider the legal aspects.

The police have the onus of proving the OP's speed and based on the OP's post they may have difficulty. If the infringement involves loss of licence then it should be challenged. If no licence loss is involved then it becomes less certain it is worth going to court.
 

Lilly118

Member
18 July 2018
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To an extent I agree.

But unmarked cars are extremely obvious from behind and from in front when you are actually paying attention
This wasn't an unmarked highway patrol type car - it was a completely standard SUV. I travel roughly 50000 KMs per year so I see a fair few unmarked cars - very different from any of these.

As far as the uniformed officers go - there were 2 people wearowe blue shirts without markings - hardly an obvious pointer!
 

Adam1user

Well-Known Member
5 January 2018
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No. Magistrates must only consider the legal aspects.
You are correct and that is the first thing is looked at, but upon someone pleading guilty with explanation, then I think the magistrate will consider the safety issue before anything else. Otherwise the person will not get section 10 for example. This is what I meant by my comment.

In case, of the OP situation, it will be hard to argue that the OP was not speeding, the OP can challenge the speed the police officers stated as you explained but I doubt he could challenge that he was not speeding, if the 2 police officers stated they were driving at a speed of a 100kmh and the OP passed and overtook them at a greater speed, then it will be hard to argue against this. This is my point of view.
 

Tim W

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....I was remaining very safe...
Not at 140km/h you weren't.
While this is not a big deal, and it was my stupid fault for over taking anyway
Yes, it is a big deal. You could have killed some innocent other person. Or yourself.
And yes, it's all on you - not for overtaking, but for speeding.
I just wanted to know if they were actually allowed to do this? I'm 100% certain they weren't traffic police, and definitely didn't have any radar or even a dash cam.
Yes they can.
I'd be glad of any thoughts as my licence is very important to me.
Well, since you ask, here are my thoughts...
Pay the fine, cop the points, and stop speeding.
 

sammy01

Well-Known Member
27 September 2015
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Just checking... It was a 100km zone?

you were going 140km.... You got fined for going 20 over the limit?

You got lucky...140km would see you lose your licence for 3 mths. Even if it was a 110km zone - you're still going 30 over and that is loss of licence...

Pay the fine.