NSW Speeding Fines from Non-traffic Cops?

Discussion in 'Traffic Law Forum' started by Lilly118, 18 July 2018.

  1. Ozwarlock67

    Ozwarlock67 Well-Known Member

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    The whole thing sounds very dubious. They should have identified themselves as police officers and you should have sighted a warrant card.

    Should you have had any doubts, you only need to say that you are not comfortable with their presence in a remote area and can you follow them to the next town that has a police station? Also ask what they used to ascertain their speed. Did they just guess?

    Do not give your licence to someone who has not clearly identified themselves as a police officer!! Now they know your name and address.

    Wait and see if you even get a ticket...and then see how it is worded before you decide to challenge it.
     
  2. Bill Murray

    Bill Murray Well-Known Member

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    Do NSW cops have to show their badge and ID even when in uniform?

    In Queensland if I am in uniform I have to give you my name rank and station <b>once</b> and only when exercising a Police power. I give it when I introduce myself and legally that's the only time I must give it. People can demand anything they want (such as my registration number or badge) but I don't have to give it and the person can be charged for failing to comply with a direction.

    Being able to ignore lights and sirens and proceed to a station requires a bit more than you having doubts - they have to be doubts that a reasonable person would have. Officers in a car with lights and sirens in uniform... what you are describing is an evade.
     
  3. Scruff

    Scruff Well-Known Member

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    Apologies for the bump, but this "do Police have to identify themselves" question comes up a lot.

    For future reference for NSW, Bill once again pretty much hit the nail on the head - even though he's from another state.

    The relative law for NSW is the "Law Enforcement (Powers and Responsibilities) Act 2002". The relevant part is "Part 15 Safeguards relating to powers", sections 201, 202 and 204A. In short, NSW Police are required to identify themselves when exercising certain powers, and that includes when stopping a motor vehicle.

    The following is a summary of the relevant bits when it comes to traffic stops:

    NSW Law Enforcement (Powers and Responsibilities) Act 2002

    Part 15 Safeguards relating to powers

    s201(1)(b): "a power to stop or search a vehicle, vessel or aircraft" is a power applicable to Part 15.

    s202(1)(a): When Officers are not in uniform, they are required to "provide evidence" that they are a Police Officer (i.e. physically show their official ID).

    s202(1)(b): When Officers are in uniform, they are only required to provide their name and place of duty (usually rank, surname and station).

    s202(1)(c): Officers must provide the reason for exercising the power (i.e. the reason for stopping the vehicle).

    s202(4): If two or more Officers are exercising the power, only one of them is required to identify themselves.

    s202(5): If a person who is subject to the exercise of a power asks the Officer for their name and place of duty, the Officer must provide that information. (Remembering that this only applies to the powers listed in s201(1) and only to one Officer if more than one are present.)​

    So for the other question that is commonly asked: "can I get out of this/that if the Police don't identify themselves", the simple answer is "it depends".

    s204A(1): If an Officer fails to comply with Part 15, it "does not render the exercise of the power unlawful or otherwise affect the validity of anything resulting from the exercise of that power."​

    Unless...

    s204A(2): "Subsection (1) does not apply if the failure to comply occurs after the police officer was asked for information as to the name of the police officer or his or her place of duty (as referred to in section 202 (5))."​

    And...

    s204A(3): "Subsection (1) does not apply to the exercise of a power that consists of a direction, requirement or request to a single person."​

    To sum it all up for traffic stops, at least one Officer MUST identify themselves, and the exercise of powers can only be unlawful if you explicitly ask for the name and place of duty where the Officer has not previously provided it, and the Officer does not comply.

    In the case of a "direction, requirement or request to a single person" (this does not include a traffic stop, which is listed separately in s201), failure to comply with Part 15 does not render the exercise of the power unlawful. An example of this would be if you are loitering or acting suspiciously and an Officer gives you a direction to "move on".

    Hope that answers a question that I've seen constantly repeated on several different forums.
     
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  4. Ozwarlock67

    Ozwarlock67 Well-Known Member

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    A lone female travelling on a deserted road is set upon by two guys purporting to be cops......hell, I would have locked the doors and called Triple 0.

    Perhaps she could advise us if she has yet had a ticket issued.
     
  5. WAbloke

    WAbloke Active Member

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  6. WAbloke

    WAbloke Active Member

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    If the police were not in FULL uniform you have a case because they were not dressed as required. Recently I attended court as an observer and the prosecuting cop called another cop to the witness stand and one of the first few questions was "were you in full uniform."
     
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