VIC Interstate Travel W/Kids - Vaccination Question

[Dr. Funk]

When the borders finally opened at the end of 2021 I asked my EX about taking our kids to Maui to visit their (My side) Grandparents.
I had suggested that Easter vacation from school would be an ideal time.

Her objection was very reasonable (so I thought): Hold off on travel until the kids have become double vaccinated. (Around May 1st they will be)
I agreed. It made sense to me.

A few weeks later I get an email with her plans to fly the kids from Melbourne to Perth........ during Easter vacation.
This is about 3 weeks before they will receive their second shot.

So, I have two issues, and I am wondering if these points are strong enough to try and prevent the trip to Perth from happening.

1.) Double Standard: I don't understand why she won't just wait until June to comply with her own wishes. Travel only when the kids are fully Vaccinated.

2.) We have a Equal Parent Responsibility section in out parenting agreement that clearly states we are to speak with the other parent before booking any travel.
The dates of their trip include night the kids are to be with me. (*I am only asking about the trip, but this is a pattern with schooling, and health care too)
I am concerned this breaking of agreements will go on and on unless I defend our parenting plan which she clearly agreed to just 12 months ago.

Sigh.....

What are my options? I always think about the kids, and want our relationship to heal......then on the other side this is a pattern and causing me great emotional stress.


Thanks for any words of advice

 

[Atticus]

Double Standard: I don't understand why she won't just wait until June to comply with her own wishes. Travel only when the kids are fully Vaccinated.

Write back and tell her that you would prefer the kids be double vaxxed before traveling as per her previous wishes .... (Also It's entirely possible that the WA premier will mandate that only fully vaxxed will be allowed to enter anyway)

The dates of their trip include night the kids are to be with me.

Ask her in writing what she proposes as make up time for the lost night.

 

[sammy01]

Maui? Hawaii? Comparing apples to pears? Going from Melbourne to Perth is different from going from Australia to America. That is not a double standard that is different continents. I suspect the rules around travel are likely to be different.

But - let's leave that one. Every chance you should just agree because MAYBE the kids cant get to Perth anyways... So, yup, just agree.

Yup she needs to give make up time. My suggestion is play smart - agree to the extra time - but with you having the make up time later in the year when you go to Maui.

Double standards - yeah- absolutely. Guess what? for all the talk about 'equality' in society, we're not even close, we just move around a bit to make some people more 'equal' than others. To prove the point. I'm male, white and middle aged. We've been running the planet for ages. Now, my maturity and experience mean FA. sigh.

OPTIONS? I hate my advice. You could fight to the death. Make court applications (and lose more than you win).... But, learning to embrace your inner Budda is gonna be a better idea. You will live longer, stress less, and spend more time loving your kids than hating your ex.

 

[Dr. Funk]

Write back and tell her that you would prefer the kids be double vaxxed before traveling as per her previous wishes .... (Also It's entirely possible that the WA premier will mandate that only fully vaxxed will be allowed to enter anyway)

Ask her in writing what she proposes as make up time for the lost night.

Thank you very much for taking the time, and your considered response. I really appreciate it.

To answer your two points

1. Yes, I have stated in writing very clearly that I would like the kids to be vaccinated, just as she requested of me. There have been a few emails requesting this.
She just does not reply, or when she has replied it contains unrelated material.
(ie. Email Subject: Travel to Perth and Vaccinations, Reply: Hey, Daughters friend XYZ has asked our daughter if they can go blah, blah, on Saturday. Would that ok? )

2. Radio Silence on how to make up. She simply does not feel she needs to make up the time. It a pattern. Has happened many times for other things.
I have this all documented. She wrote that "Has no responsibility" to make up time for things like this, or the days she was unable to keep her schedule.

Yes, we have an agreement to make this up in our parenting plan. Sigh.

After many emails asking her to keep her promises, asking for ways we can stop fighting and heal as a family, to remember for the kids no one wins in court, and that I want her to move on and be happy and successful etc.....

It's happening with school choice, with health care, with travel, not showing up to pick up the kids etc....... The only other time in my life I have seen behaviour like this is when say a 2 or 3 year old has a ball, and you say "Don't throw that ball." You know the one that will just look at you stone cold stoic and throw it right in front of you.


So ... Family Dispute Resolution is booked, and I think it is going to be inevitable I need to take her to court to get some integrity and accountability for the parenting plan.

However it takes a long time to get the court date, and I guess my more to the point question is it worth trying to get some kind of expedition court date since the travel is in April.

You could be 100% right in the that WA may lock it down anyway........

Thank you again for all your help

 

[sammy01]

sounds like split was recent.... Mate, my experience, they calm down eventually. But you'll probably be dead by then.

You need to be the grown up here.... Yup 2yr old throwing a ball. Actually, more to do with 13 yr olds.. See when we were playing footy on the oval the girls were doing something different. I suspect that is why they're better at this bs than us.

Stay calm. avoid bs conflict, the kids will appreciate it.

 

[Dr. Funk]

sounds like split was recent.... Mate, my experience, they calm down eventually. But you'll probably be dead by then.

You need to be the grown up here.... Yup 2yr old throwing a ball. Actually, more to do with 13 yr olds.. See when we were playing footy on the oval the girls were doing something different. I suspect that is why they're better at this bs than us.

Stay calm. avoid bs conflict, the kids will appreciate it.

Dear Sammy

Thank you very much for your generous and thoughtful reply. After I posted my reply Atticus, I realised that anything further would be best discussed with my lawyer.

Yes, I am from the U.S. I moved from NYC (Manhattan) to Melbourne 6 going on 7 years ago. Here it seems very common for certain industries (like Law) for people to take off all of Jan. I spoke with my lawyer (who I have been very pleased to be working with) a week before X-mas, when I was informed they will return on Feb. 6.

Thus, this has been sailing in my mind. Thank you for the "Budda" sage advice.

You are very perceptive, the property settlement and parenting plans are about 13 months old.


JUST BLOWING OFF STEAM FROM HERE ONWARDS.

One thing I find odd is Australian law structure and how long it takes before you can have accountability. My Ex-wife (she works in Gov.) actually wrote our 20 page plan, and sent it to both me and my lawyer @ Dec 2020. My lawyer, and I were both impressed that the plan seemed to be a true comprise.
Both parties got a little more here, gave up a little more there.
Both of us were a little unhappy about it, but we both agreed we could live with it.

Thus when she informed me she is no longer going to follow that plan, and began to break agreement after agreement...... (and it's clear as day. We have the agreement in the plan, and most of the time I have a written confirmation that she is not going to follow it: Ie. Apply to private school behind my back, book vacations without asking, making bookings during my time with the kids) that is is about following your word. Doing what you say. Most of the agreements were her ideas.

So the next step is Family Resolution Dispute. I've been told there are various types of mediation places: Compassionate but cheap and useless, or like the place I have been told to go which does a full diagnosis. It also runs between 10,000 to 15,000.

Even then it won't be legally binding. So what is the point of that. I feel like Charlie Brown trying to kick the soccer ball. Exactly what am I negotiating too? All I want is
for her to honour the agreement we made. It is in writing, and she is very open about not following it.

I would be open minded if she made a request for a amendment, I have asked her if there is anything she wants in the plan that is not there.
She won't tell me until mediation. (?!!)

Your great post about Budda has begun at least a shift in my thinking. Last night I was thinking "you know, instead of having to pay $10,000 because my ex is not keeping her agreements" and as you alluded to "There really is no victory that can come from the courts." I want the kids to have a good relationship with her, and really it's not until people act like adults that it will ever stop....... Maybe I should just book a holiday for myself away for a week. Maybe it is like being a kid where one is looking for a re-action.


I don't know.... I really just want let go of past grudges and I am always thinking about what is best for the kids, and I know they lose the more we fight.

 

[sammy01]

Ok a few thoughts. Many you won't like....
1. How much crap are you prepared to take? So IF she is stopping you seeing the kids for months on end. Well that is pretty crap and worth chasing up. If she is not complying with the agreement every once in a while, spend your money on yoga.
2. Mediation - go cheap. Look, you're likely gonna get the same response. But mediation is a necessary step before applying to court. So go cheap and save the $$$ for IF court becomes a necessity.
3. It would have been beneficial for you to have gotten the parenting plan stamped by the court - it makes them court orders, but hey we missed that boat.
4. Look, you don't have to sit on your hands. Maybe a little bit of push back is worth thinking about. So for example - A nicely worded letter. I'm making some assumptions. I'm assuming youngest child is older than 3?.. But Something like....
Dear ex,
There are several instances where you have not complied with our parenting agreement. This has impacted on my time with the children. As the primary carer of the children you already spend more time with them and as such your decision to not comply with our agreement is unreasonable. Please be advised that I expect the agreement to be complied with. I'm alway open to find compromises and make one off changes. However, in the event that a one off change occurs that impacts on my time with the children then make up time will be required.

So what you then need to do is keep the kids when it suits you. It is entirely up to you as far as whether or not you notify her prior or just keep the kids an additional night or two UNLESS we're talking about very young kids? But you also said she has failed to show up to pick up the kids?

Ok, so you need to read the next bit a few times until it sinks in. No court can order a twit to stop being a twit. So even if you have a court order, she can still fcuk you around. Read it again... and again...

For what it is worth, my ex is very similar. BTW the kids now live with me... But that is another story... Even after 10 yrs. She hates me. I feel sorry for her. I really do. She has spent 10 yrs living with a passionate hatred of me. Fcuk that, life is too short. But that hatred impacts her life and her rational judgement.
So by way of example. She said to the kids recently that she didn't care if I sat at McDonalds for hours waiting. (we meet at a Mcdonalds roughly half way between our two homes. It is a 8 hour round trip.) And she doesn't care. She has let me sit there for 5 hours... She will tell me we're meeting at 1pm, but rock up at 6pm... just for fun. She thinks it is funny. She gets out of her car and looks at her watch, smiles and say's 'oh is that the time, gee I'm a bit late'... And I smile back. BUT she tells the kids. Even back in the day when the kids lived with her, she would bad mouth me. Often it was very subtle. But the kids picked up on it.... They saw me being nice - To the point of excess - So for example, I would sit with the kids and make HER a mother's day card... But they saw me being a decent human, they saw mum being a twit. I am doing what I can to raise my kids to be decent human beings... There is a lot to be said for that...

 

[Docupedia]

My two cents, for what it's worth (of probably about 1/10 of a penny on current exchange rates...):

Mediation is a wonderful thing - provided both parties act reasonably and are open to the possibility of making a compromise. How often does that happen? In the exception, at best. To be fair I'm not just talking about family law here but rather across the whole gamut of disputes. It just so happens that family law tends to involve more stubborn, ignorant, and vindictive parties than the average commercial dispute in my opinion.

When mediation works, it works well. Otherwise it's just a necessary rung on the ladder to advance the matter. Consider it the opportunity that must be taken. As sammy01 said, go for the cheap mediation option. It's a waste of money unless you think that there is actually going to be a worthwhile attempt made by both parties. Even then, a good mediator's job is to facilitate discussion and compromise between the parties and then get the hell out of the way. That shouldn't be an expensive proposition. If you need major involvement (and therefore cost) from a mediator it generally means either: (a) the parties are at loggerheads because they can't see anything other than their perspective, or (b) they're being forced into the mediation and don't want to meaningfully participate. It may be worth the cost in (a), but definitely not in (b). My gut feeling is most of the family stuff sits squarely in (b).

If there's a worthwhile cost in mediation, I think it lies in the representatives. A lawyer having that often uncomfortable discussion with their client that it is in the client's interest to make some capitulations and come to an agreement now, rather than spend the time and money going to court, in order to encourage them to act reasonably is possibly the most important aspect. Unfortunately, it usually requires that this discussion occurs on both sides.

Lastly, on a note of interest, she drafts the plan (I'm assuming putting forward her preferred situation) and then doesn't follow it? That pretty clearly implies to me that the ex is not going to be reasonable in any way, shape, or form. If you want to pursue this through to orders, I'd be looking for the smoothest, quickest path to get there while satisfying all the requirements. Her word doesn't appear to be worth much if she's willing to act in the manner you've described.