TAS How to Stop Ex's Harassment?

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AllForHer

Well-Known Member
23 July 2014
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My view is different to the above. I'm inclined to agree with your first lawyer about having very little chance of a Court making orders that time with the mother be supervised, and I think the likelihood of getting an order for sole parental responsibility is even less.

I don't mean to belittle your position, but there are some issues in the facts that I think would be cause for doubt in the Courtroom.

First, your first post said you've tried to be accommodating of her wishes to see the kids, but you've then said your only request was that she have someone trustworthy present. Is that where she was 'uncooperative'? Because most parents tend to be 'uncooperative' when the other parent is dictating that their time with their child must be supervised, even though there has been no abuse against the children themselves.

Second, you've said that if you accidentally miss one phone call, she then calls 30 more times. Since she only sees the kids three times a year, it's fair to assume that phone calls are probably a fairly important component of the kids' capacity to enjoy a meaningful relationship with their mother, so do you accidentally miss the next 30 phone calls as well? Or do you advise her that you'll get the kids the call her back during the times you agreed at mediation?

Third, mum is living several hours away now and has been for four years, and you said you've had to take the children to her, rather than her coming to collect them, so the threat of her coming to your house and breaking a window isn't exactly a real, immediate or ongoing threat, is it?

There's no abuse against the kids, and it seems most of her focus in communication is about the kids, so I am inclined to wonder if the abuse and the conflict stems from her frustration about being unable to speak to or see the kids on a regular basis, rather than because she's on a vendetta against you? Would the conflict dissipate if, for example, phone calls were willingly facilitated, time spent with increased and supervised time done away with?

Fourth, the children are getting to an age now where their fears, if genuine, would manifest as action, such as refusing to speak to their mother on the phone (which, I note, you've also said you don't enforce), or refusing to see her during the times scheduled, yet you've indicated they do still talk to her on the phone and still see her three times a year. Unusual, for a child of 12 under advice from a counsellor to continue engaging someone that has, over five years of very little contact, led them to fear for their life...?

Fifth, you don't have the support of any expert witnesses to show mum is a danger to the kids - an FVO, sure, but no breaches, no convictions, no DHS involvement, not even a counsellor who will support no contact for what has been described as a highly distressed child, nor a lawyer who thinks supervised access is within reach. Forgive the bluntness, but those are extraordinary odds to find such a broad spectrum of experts, but a quantity of zero advising there's an actionable risk to the kids.

As I said, I don't meant to belittle your position, and I know from personal experience how hard Court can be for dads, but if a mother came to me on this forum and presented the same set of facts, I would have the same apprehension as to the reality of the situation that I do here.

I am concerned that perhaps you're contributing to this situation more readily than you are either aware or otherwise prepared to admit, and I fear that will injure you if you end up in Court. ..
 

Sheer

Active Member
22 September 2016
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But - if you're deemed by the court to have manipulated the kids to get back at the ex, or for whatever messed up reason that people do that sorta stuff - you can expect the courts to come down on you hard.... Not saying that is what you're doing, but it does happen...

Really appreciate your help and will consider what you've suggested. As far as the above goes, that is not my intention at all. Am I coming across that way?

My concerns have always been about the kids safety and I have tried to act in a way that would allow them to have as much contact with Mum they wanted, provided that it was safe to do so. She has a long history of violent and drug related offences and I have legitimate concerns that she is capable of putting them in danger.

I am also concerned about the psychological effect she is having on the children, especially our eldest. Maybe this sounds defensive, its just that there seems to be a consensus that people lie or exaggerate in order to manipulate the system. That is definitely not the case here.
 

Rod

Lawyer
LawConnect (LawTap) Verified
27 May 2014
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.... and I have legitimate concerns that she is capable of putting them in danger.

Your problem is that you appear to have next to no evidence of this behaviour that is acceptable to a court. Start making reports to police and documenting unacceptable behaviour each and every time it occurs.
 

Sheer

Active Member
22 September 2016
6
0
31
First, your first post said you've tried to be accommodating of her wishes to see the kids, but you've then said your only request was that she have someone trustworthy present. Is that where she was 'uncooperative'? Because most parents tend to be 'uncooperative' when the other parent is dictating that their time with their child must be supervised, even though there has been no abuse against the children themselves.

Second, you've said that if you accidentally miss one phone call, she then calls 30 more times. Since she only sees the kids three times a year, it's fair to assume that phone calls are probably a fairly important component of the kids' capacity to enjoy a meaningful relationship with their mother, so do you accidentally miss the next 30 phone calls as well? Or do you advise her that you'll get the kids the call her back during the times you agreed at mediation?

Third, mum is living several hours away now and has been for four years, and you said you've had to take the children to her, rather than her coming to collect them, so the threat of her coming to your house and breaking a window isn't exactly a real, immediate or ongoing threat, is it?

There's no abuse against the kids, and it seems most of her focus in communication is about the kids, so I am inclined to wonder if the abuse and the conflict stems from her frustration about being unable to speak to or see the kids on a regular basis, rather than because she's on a vendetta against you? Would the conflict dissipate if, for example, phone calls were willingly facilitated, time spent with increased and supervised time done away with?

Fourth, the children are getting to an age now where their fears, if genuine, would manifest as action, such as refusing to speak to their mother on the phone (which, I note, you've also said you don't enforce), or refusing to see her during the times scheduled, yet you've indicated they do still talk to her on the phone and still see her three times a year. Unusual, for a child of 12 under advice from a counsellor to continue engaging someone that has, over five years of very little contact, led them to fear for their life...?

Fifth, you don't have the support of any expert witnesses to show mum is a danger to the kids - an FVO, sure, but no breaches, no convictions, no DHS involvement, not even a counsellor who will support no contact for what has been described as a highly distressed child, nor a lawyer who thinks supervised access is within reach.
Forgive the bluntness, but those are extraordinary odds to find such a broad spectrum of experts, but a quantity of zero advising there's an actionable risk to the kids.

As I said, I don't meant to belittle your position, and I know from personal experience how hard Court can be for dads, but if a mother came to me on this forum and presented the same set of facts, I would have the same apprehension as to the reality of the situation that I do here. I am concerned that perhaps you're contributing to this situation more readily than you are either aware or otherwise prepared to admit, and I fear that will injure you if you end up in Court. ..

I really appreciate your thorough input. I understand that it is difficult to get a full understanding of the situation based on a few paragraphs of information. I haven't given many details about our background and I believe this had led to some assumptions on your behalf. I will respond to your comments in the order they were written.

Firstly, I have insisted that she have supervised visits because I am afraid she will hurt the children and she has given me good reason to justify those fears. To be honest I still dont feel safe leaving the children with her at all (even supervised) but I have been advised that I have to do it. You are right that she has contested the supervised visits but it is not the only way she has been uncooperative.

There has been significant emotional abuse towards the children and they have also witnessed her physically attack me and other people several times which was very distressing for them.

Secondly, I agree that phone calls are an important part of sustaining a relationship between the kids and their Mum. I allow them to call Mum whenever they wish and visa versa... However she frequently calls whilst drunk or high and is abusive towards the kids and I.

It is impossible to reason with her and often what she is talking about is completely unrelated to the children anyway. I was advised to hang up the phone and ignore her when she is abusive but that is the only time I prevent her from talking to the children.

Her calling 30 or more times in a row and sending dozens of abusive messages is not justified by frustration. If she calls and we don't answer she can just leave a message and the kids will always call her back later on that day, but she doesn't always do that. She repeatedly calls and sends abusive texts. Again, I don't intentionally avoid her calls (except when she is being abusive) sometimes we are just busy at the movies or the park or in the shower etc...

Thirdly, phone calls and visits are willing facilitated. She has only ever asked to see them every few months. Phone calls have been unlimited (except for temporarily ignoring calls when she is being abusive). Breaking a window and running our car off the road is a threat because it happened and there nothing to suggest it wont happen again. Also she has a history or violence.

I haven't given details of our history so I understand it may be difficult for you to discern what level of threat she is.. here are some examples of the behaviours that led me to fear for our children's safety and leave the relationship... she assaulted me with a bat, made death threats towards me and my family; destroyed our home smashing ornaments, windows, kids toys and furniture; drove with our child in the car while she was too drunk, hit me more times than i can remember (I never put a hand on her).

Although the physical abuse was directed at me the threats were directed at our children. This is really just a very brief glimpse into her history. I took the kids and left in the middle of the night because she was becoming increasingly threatening. After that she had no interest in pursuing custody. She was happy for the kids to live with me. We have never been in dispute about that.

Fourthly, not sure what the question is..

Fifthly, children's services have been involved. She has also been charged with assault years ago when we separated. An order was placed then which she broke and was subsequently charged with multiple breeches. I have forensic evidence and a police report of the damage she did to our home and assault on me.

I hope this has clarified things a bit. I think ill leave it there for now and look into mediation again.
 

Sheer

Active Member
22 September 2016
6
0
31
Your problem is that you appear to have next to no evidence of this behaviour that is acceptable to a court. Start making reports to police and documenting unacceptable behaviour each and every time it occurs.

Will do. Thanks mate.