NSW Alternate Weekends: Is 3 hours apart too far?

[sammy01]

ok. so a few things... Get a liitle bit better at the rebuttal... I'm gonna tell the children blah blah blah... Response....
Dear nutter,
You communicated that you intend to tell the children about the fact that I'm applying to Relationships Australia for mediation. I don't thing that is appropriate. however, can you please confirm that you'll be telling the children that the reasons I'm applying for mediation and failing that court, is because you have denied the children the right to have a meaningful relationship with me? Please be aware that in the event that you continue to deny the children the right to a meaningful relationship with me I will apply to court and I will be informing the children when they are old enough to understand that I tried to find opportunities to compromise with you however you refused to agree to any reasonable proposals.

ALWAYS IN WRITING. You never get to finish a sentence when you're talking to her... So put it in writing. and pick your battles. So the other obvious argument is IF the kids get to ''choose" then why not let them choose to come and stay with dad for a bit. OR what if they want to stay and not return... BUT that is not a good jar of worms to open... Pick your battles.

Now as for court.... I go the other way. Get the paperwork sorted. File it yourself. MAYBE spend $ on solicitors IF need be. Basically, bring out the big guns at the end of the fight, not the start. WHY well the end of the fight is the time to bring out the big guns.... AND maybe.... just maybe. If she sees you're self representing SHE might do the same. But you guys have an advantage or two... You're not nutters for a start - nutters seem to think they can tell the judge... you don't tell them, you ask them.... And you have this site to help you.

 

[Atticus]

Now as for court.... I go the other way. Get the paperwork sorted. File it yourself. MAYBE spend $ on solicitors IF need be

Absolutely agree… This is about just getting the court involved & the consequences that can start to flow form noncompliance…. It can take YEARS to get final orders, so file for interim & final orders in your initial application…. You can DIY if you research enough, but you can get interim orders fairly quickly.

Put a LOT of thought into what you want as interim orders because they are the orders you may be working to for quite a while… Think of all the practicalities, travel & costs, etc…. Good thing about interim orders is that you always have another court date set in the future, so if there are contraventions, there is no need to apply, just raise them at next court event, but only if they are serious contraventions.

Basically you want to give a judge confidence that YOU are able to co parent even with someone unreasonable, as long as the kids rights to a meaningful relationship & the time to achieve that is not interfered with… all the other issues are background noise.

Check out this self representing guide for some good pointers >>>> How to run a family law case | Victoria Legal Aid

 

[RAM7778]

ok. so a few things... Get a liitle bit better at the rebuttal... I'm gonna tell the children blah blah blah... Response....
Dear nutter,
You communicated that you intend to tell the children about the fact that I'm applying to Relationships Australia for mediation. I don't thing that is appropriate. however, can you please confirm that you'll be telling the children that the reasons I'm applying for mediation and failing that court, is because you have denied the children the right to have a meaningful relationship with me? Please be aware that in the event that you continue to deny the children the right to a meaningful relationship with me I will apply to court and I will be informing the children when they are old enough to understand that I tried to find opportunities to compromise with you however you refused to agree to any reasonable proposals.

ALWAYS IN WRITING. You never get to finish a sentence when you're talking to her... So put it in writing. and pick your battles. So the other obvious argument is IF the kids get to ''choose" then why not let them choose to come and stay with dad for a bit. OR what if they want to stay and not return... BUT that is not a good jar of worms to open... Pick your battles.

Now as for court.... I go the other way. Get the paperwork sorted. File it yourself. MAYBE spend $ on solicitors IF need be. Basically, bring out the big guns at the end of the fight, not the start. WHY well the end of the fight is the time to bring out the big guns.... AND maybe.... just maybe. If she sees you're self representing SHE might do the same. But you guys have an advantage or two... You're not nutters for a start - nutters seem to think they can tell the judge... you don't tell them, you ask them.... And you have this site to help you.

Thanks so much Sammy,
That's a really big help, you are 100% right my partner never gets to finish a sentence mum always talks over him and goes from one thing to another and can never just focus on one thing. When she realises that she isn't getting anywhere with 1 point she tries something else and it totally not relevant to what we are trying to discuss.

We a very conscious of making sure we don't get caught up in the petty tit for tat and keep trying to bring her back to the topic at hand. You make a really good point about putting everything writing. She doesn't email or respond to texts she constantly picks up the phone to rant. I appreciate you advice about sending the follow up email after such a call confirming the conversation and her intentions. We do record the conversations so that will allow us to go over the call and highlight our concerns via email. I guess also this helps us keep a timeline of the calls and the content.

She lives on centrelink so she will be able to get legal aid from the get go, your suggestion about getting solicitors involved at the end has made me think differently. I guess in war you don't send in your tanks first the big guys come out at the end. I really hope any solicitor from legal aid she engages will open her eyes a little in regards to the family law act and it is in fact based around the "Children's Rights" mum and dad have no rights, they have obligations.

 

[RAM7778]

Absolutely agree… This is about just getting the court involved & the consequences that can start to flow form noncompliance…. It can take YEARS to get final orders, so file for interim & final orders in your initial application…. You can DIY if you research enough, but you can get interim orders fairly quickly.

Put a LOT of thought into what you want as interim orders because they are the orders you may be working to for quite a while… Think of all the practicalities, travel & costs, etc…. Good thing about interim orders is that you always have another court date set in the future, so if there are contraventions, there is no need to apply, just raise them at next court event, but only if they are serious contraventions.

Basically you want to give a judge confidence that YOU are able to co parent even with someone unreasonable, as long as the kids rights to a meaningful relationship & the time to achieve that is not interfered with… all the other issues are background noise.

Check out this self representing guide for some good pointers >>>> How to run a family law case | Victoria Legal Aid

We are more than willing to co-parent even if she continues to remain unreasonable, example being she won't want to drive half way and I have no doubt that she will say because she is on centrelink she can't afford the fuel every second week. If it comes down to that then we will offer to provide a $50 (Whatever the value) BP fuel card, or transfer funds directly into her account to ensure traceability or even drive the whole way. 6 hour round trip for us but if that's the only way then so be it.

One issue we do constantly have with her is even still with the very limited time my partner gets she often cancels because the "kids are sick", is that something we are able to put into orders? The only valid reason for cancellation is due to hospitalisation which we must be notified of immediately? Based on past behavior I know she will try every reason under the sun not to facilitate the "Time spent with"

 

[sammy01]

Sick kids is not an excuse.
So an order that states taht in the event the ex decides for what ever reason to cancel a weekend, the father has the right to make up time so long as 21 days notice is given of the make up time.

Look sad but true, no court order can order a twit to stop being a twit. All you can do is common sense. The system is screwed. She contravenes, you go back to court again and again and again.

 

[RAM7778]

Sick kids is not an excuse.
So an order that states taht in the event the ex decides for what ever reason to cancel a weekend, the father has the right to make up time so long as 21 days notice is given of the make up time.

Look sad but true, no court order can order a twit to stop being a twit. All you can do is common sense. The system is screwed. She contravenes, you go back to court again and again and again.

That is a great thing to add in, it may deter her if she knows it has to made up anyway.

Another question, like I have previously said there has been zero, AVO, DVO, police were never called to the house not even for a noise complaint. I know that dirty tactics are often used to try and gain advantage. What happens if she pipes up and claims there was domestic violence. How do we fight against someone that makes false accusations? how do we disprove something that never took place? I find that if a women goes in and claims Domestic Abuse they air on the side of caution and it's up to the male or vice versa to prove innocence not her prove guilt.

 

[sammy01]

Ok Ram - Bring it in tight and pay attention.
What if?
Another questions?
How do we deal with?
Calm down... Deal with the here and now. Almost all family law cases come with some BS DV blah blah.... Next to none of it actually gets tested in court. Why? because the person making the allegations realises they might wanna let that one go because they can't prove it and they will lose credibility if they're caught making bs up.

So relax. The more you stress about the what if's and the 'how do we deal with? BS the sooner you're gonna die of a stress related illness. So relax and come up with common sense solutions to common sense problems and let the rest of it sort itself out. Now go sit on the naughty chair for 5 minutes and think about how you're letting the irrational ex make you irrational too. Go on.

 

[RAM7778]

Ok Ram - Bring it in tight and pay attention.
What if?
Another questions?
How do we deal with?
Calm down... Deal with the here and now. Almost all family law cases come with some BS DV blah blah.... Next to none of it actually gets tested in court. Why? because the person making the allegations realises they might wanna let that one go because they can't prove it and they will lose credibility if they're caught making bs up.

So relax. The more you stress about the what if's and the 'how do we deal with? BS the sooner you're gonna die of a stress related illness. So relax and come up with common sense solutions to common sense problems and let the rest of it sort itself out. Now go sit on the naughty chair for 5 minutes and think about how you're letting the irrational ex make you irrational too. Go on.

hahahaha you are 100% correct, I'm thinking of every different scenario to ensure I don't get caught off guard and not prepared. These things don't happen overnight so if any BS allegations are raised I can deal with it and prepare a response accordingly.

Thank you I have given myself a swift uppercut whilst in the naught chair.

 

[Step2Three]

Another question, like I have previously said there has been zero, AVO, DVO, police were never called to the house not even for a noise complaint. I know that dirty tactics are often used to try and gain advantage. What happens if she pipes up and claims there was domestic violence. How do we fight against someone that makes false accusations? how do we disprove something that never took place? I find that if a women goes in and claims Domestic Abuse they air on the side of caution and it's up to the male or vice versa to prove innocence not her prove guilt.

I was almost going to comment on this statement last week, because based on my own experience, and many posters here, there is a decent probability this will also happen in your case, regardless of what the history is. So I'm glad you're aware of the possibility- hopefully being forewarned is forearmed.
I think some folks have above suggested keeping everything in writing and not phone calls (because you won't have records of what was said in a call). Keep records of all your interactions/conversations with the kids from now on too, and times he has spent with them in the past if possible, to be able to show that the ex wasn't concerned about the supposed risks at the time.

How to (and whether to) counter allegations depends on the nature of them. If there are allegations that the children are at risk that will be more critical as that would influence decisions about how they spend their time. If she is only alleging Family violence against her, then I'd have thought the distance between you helps nullify any supposed risk, if you're meeting half way it's a public place (Sutton Forest Maccas?).
If it does happen, I'd be more worried about making sure there are the right conditions on any AVO/DVO and/or the existence of suitable family court orders to allow sufficient communication with or about the children, and the enable handovers to take place.
For example- My partners ex took out a FVRO the day before family court initial hearing. Before that initial hearing he made some interim consent orders that stipulated that drop offs take place at the ex's sisters house, rather than her own. He didn't have any idea why that was getting stipulated, but it really didn't make a difference so he agreed. As it turned out, it was great because he couldn't be in any kind of suspected breach by going near her house.
Some consequences of the FVRO were things like he couldn't go to school events, because then he'd be within 20m of her (she lied and told the magistrate that he never to school, so the magistrate who made the initial order didnt think they needed to make any accommodations for that), so the next visit to family court he needed to get more orders that would then cover off things like that. In the end she cancelled the application before it was going to be contested, so the FVRO hasn't applied for several years but little has actually changed since there were enough orders to cover the communication that he does need and truth be told none of us want any more interaction with her than that. Sammy often says (and I agree), that the fact you're restrained from dealing with any other noise from the ex is a blessing.

 

[RAM7778]

I was almost going to comment on this statement last week, because based on my own experience, and many posters here, there is a decent probability this will also happen in your case, regardless of what the history is. So I'm glad you're aware of the possibility- hopefully being forewarned is forearmed.
I think some folks have above suggested keeping everything in writing and not phone calls (because you won't have records of what was said in a call). Keep records of all your interactions/conversations with the kids from now on too, and times he has spent with them in the past if possible, to be able to show that the ex wasn't concerned about the supposed risks at the time.

How to (and whether to) counter allegations depends on the nature of them. If there are allegations that the children are at risk that will be more critical as that would influence decisions about how they spend their time. If she is only alleging Family violence against her, then I'd have thought the distance between you helps nullify any supposed risk, if you're meeting half way it's a public place (Sutton Forest Maccas?).
If it does happen, I'd be more worried about making sure there are the right conditions on any AVO/DVO and/or the existence of suitable family court orders to allow sufficient communication with or about the children, and the enable handovers to take place.
For example- My partners ex took out a FVRO the day before family court initial hearing. Before that initial hearing he made some interim consent orders that stipulated that drop offs take place at the ex's sisters house, rather than her own. He didn't have any idea why that was getting stipulated, but it really didn't make a difference so he agreed. As it turned out, it was great because he couldn't be in any kind of suspected breach by going near her house.
Some consequences of the FVRO were things like he couldn't go to school events, because then he'd be within 20m of her (she lied and told the magistrate that he never to school, so the magistrate who made the initial order didnt think they needed to make any accommodations for that), so the next visit to family court he needed to get more orders that would then cover off things like that. In the end she cancelled the application before it was going to be contested, so the FVRO hasn't applied for several years but little has actually changed since there were enough orders to cover the communication that he does need and truth be told none of us want any more interaction with her than that. Sammy often says (and I agree), that the fact you're restrained from dealing with any other noise from the ex is a blessing.

Well you never know what she could come up with, if she tries to state that the children are at risk it will be pretty hard for her to get that to fly. We have 50/50 shared care of my boys and my eldest who is now an adult used to live with us fulltime. Since he is now an adult he would be able to provide an affidavit on what my partner is like as a step dad, and my 12 and 15 year old boys would also be happy to speak with an ICL or be part of a family report. (If it ever gets that far)

I went and got a journal for both of us the other day, that way we can always carry it with us and if something happens we immediately write it in the journal.