NSW Stormwater inundating my backyard from neighbours property - easement question

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philipe

Member
10 August 2020
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0
1
I have a rear neighbour whose yard is higher than mine. His yard slopes down towards the back fence. The street is also higher, so his stormwater (and all 14 neighbours next to him, are "higher" than me) but lower than their front street, so their stormwaters connect to a pipe in their backyard and they all have a drainage easement.

Here is a diagram to explain further.
diagram.jpg

On the subdivision plan it says "Easement to Drain Water 1.5m wide" and it runs along their entire back yards at the boundary.

1. I suspect this pipe has sprung a leak, unfortunately right in my neighbours backyard, and water from the other 7 houses "up stream" of this pipe, their stormwater is flowing out of it, in my neighbours backyard but then flowing through his soil and ending up in my yard, flooding my yard and the back of my house.

Council won't investigate and say stormwater is a civil matter. That it is a 'private pipe' and every one of the neighbours is responsible for their little bit in their own yard.

I have no evidence (except the pool of water in my yard).

How can I get this investigated e.g. digging a hole in the neighbours backyard to inspect the pipe, to see if it is leaking and causing water to flow out of it and into my backyard? The neighbour is not very cooperative unfortunately. I have asked them several times but they just fob me off and don't want to know about it.

Is council correct or is this indeed their issue? It is a 250mm pipe which runs servicing 14 houses and ends up dumping water into the kerb/stormwater system on the public road. It probably was put in place by the developer.

Do I need to get a property lawyer to write him a letter requesting he investigate his drainage issue and this stormwater pipe?
Can I involve my house insurance?
Should they have to pay to investigate that pipe? Should all the neighbours? Council? Me?

I spent 20k on my yard drainage as initially I thought it was my own problem, but this has not alleviated the problem, there is simply WAY too much water for me to drain out to my street myself.

2. Separate to this, does the rear neighbour have an obligation to control the flow of stormwater on his property? Or if the natural land slopes downward towards my block, then he can let nature take its course? He has a big pool of water in his yard too, (but away from his house), because his stormwater dumps straight onto the ground in his yard. I don't know why he doesn't connect to this stormwater pipe in the yard. Which leads me to question maybe it is blocked, leaking or there is an issue.

Any advice appreciated!
 

philipe

Member
10 August 2020
2
0
1
Quick update, I spoke to the neighbour and asked if I could send a plumber at my cost and would they be willing to provide access and allow him to dig a small hole to inspect the pipe if needed, they agreed surprisingly.

Separate to this, Council are so far unwilling to help. Yet they have powers under Section 124 of the Local Government Act 1993 (NSW) to issue orders to the neighbour e.g. item#12 " To do such things as are necessary to control the flow of surface water across land" when " Other land, or a building on the land or other land, is being damaged or is likely to be damaged "... yet the officer from the council is saying this applies to things like air conditioning dripping!

I am trying to ascertain whether because their landscaping/backyard slopes towards the rear (in our property direction), and this is 'natural', then they have no obligations ? They do have pipes from their back verandah which flow water straight onto their grass yard in our direction, but council is saying that its far enough away and "shouldn't be an issue".

If anyone has any advice would be great to hear.
 

kmn75

Member
29 January 2021
1
0
1
Hi Philipe,
I bumped into your post here. I am facing a similar issue in one of investment property and have some insight to share from my experience and roadblocks. Will also be keen to hear your update. Which council you are dealing with?
Kumar
 

Zareen

Member
20 August 2021
2
0
1
Hi Philipe,
I bumped into your post here. I am facing a similar issue in one of investment property and have some insight to share from my experience and roadblocks. Will also be keen to hear your update. Which council you are dealing with?
Kumar
Hi Kumar,

We are in the same boat and don't know who to contact regarding this matter, our council is Hills Shire Council in Sydney and they say it is not their problem. Can you please let me know how you resolved this issue and who did you get involved? Thanks
 

Zareen

Member
20 August 2021
2
0
1
Quick update, I spoke to the neighbour and asked if I could send a plumber at my cost and would they be willing to provide access and allow him to dig a small hole to inspect the pipe if needed, they agreed surprisingly.

Separate to this, Council are so far unwilling to help. Yet they have powers under Section 124 of the Local Government Act 1993 (NSW) to issue orders to the neighbour e.g. item#12 " To do such things as are necessary to control the flow of surface water across land" when " Other land, or a building on the land or other land, is being damaged or is likely to be damaged "... yet the officer from the council is saying this applies to things like air conditioning dripping!

I am trying to ascertain whether because their landscaping/backyard slopes towards the rear (in our property direction), and this is 'natural', then they have no obligations ? They do have pipes from their back verandah which flow water straight onto their grass yard in our direction, but council is saying that its far enough away and "shouldn't be an issue".

If anyone has any advice would be great to hear.
Hi Philipe,
We are in the same boat and don't know who to contact regarding this matter, our council is Hills Shire Council in Sydney and they say it is not their problem. Can you please let me know how you resolved this issue and who did you get involved? Thanks
 

Dart 77

Active Member
11 July 2021
7
1
34
The original poster wrote this in Aug 2020. It's now Aug 2021 and no replies?! Except for a couple of people " in the same boat". Philipe put a lot of effort into that original post with a well written explanation and a great diagram but all (it seems) to no avail. Very sad. I certainly hope he had a win somewhere. $20,000 is a hell of a lot of money to try and fix a problem that isn't your fault. I am in Perth but I grew up in the Hills District and my parents still live there. How pathetic of councils, they are much the same anywhere you go. Good at collecting rates but not so good at helping out the people who desperately need their intervention. And this legal forum isn't helping any either it seems...
 
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Reftan777

Member
23 February 2021
2
0
1
Hello Zareen,
I would hope you would have received more specific answers, and I can only provide generalities and suggestions, because I am in Qld, although I am a somewhat similar situation, so I can relate to your query.

1. Can you provide a "Bird's Eye View" map? It would make the visualisation much easier, particularly regarding the 14 neighbours and the slopes/direction of water flow involved. Some contour lines would also help.

BTW, are there other neighbours to your right and left, also beneath the 14 higher neighbours, also in the same flooding situation?

2. I suggest you obtain a formal map of the easement and drainage pipe - it will make any future approaches much more "official" and forcefully generate a response, because you demonstrate that you have done your research, and are heading toward legal action.

This may be from your Local Council, the Subdivision's Developer [assuming you can find them], "Dial Before You Dig", or the Municipality's plumbing and drainage maps. All the new building plans should be accessible;

3. Is the 250 mm stormwater drain pipe you refer to actually a solid walled pipe, or a very large "Agpipe" [usually with a cloth "sock" and surrounded by gravel] used for aggregating surface and subsurface drainage from a large area, and moving it away?

Because you mention that your neighbour has drainage onto their open ground, it is not clear how the pipe would collect their and the other neighbour's water, unless [say] the guttering is piped directly into it.

If it is an "Agpipe", it is common that the "sock" [and/or the pipe itself] becomes blocked with silt and other slime, thereby preventing the water entering the pipe through its perforations, or preventing internal flow;

4. Can the 250 mm stormwater drain be accessed from the street, or a nearby pit at either end?

It might be easier for the plumber to insert a "Snake Camera" from there to view the length of the pipe, and although your direct neighbour's [upstream perpendicular feed into it] drain might not be visible for its full length, there should be silt, erosion, etc which might help locate the break, if any.

BTW, there are also mobile, wireless inspection cameras mounted on "Toy vehicles", so with a 250 mm pipe, it can be inserted, navigated, and internal turns made;

5. Your Council sounds lazy, evasive, and irresponsible. Air conditioning dripping versus guttering and roof drainage? Please... Demand answers, climb the hierarchy, diarise details and conversations, and put every contact in writing.

Council survey maps of the predevelopment ["Natural Ground Level"] should also be available. Somebody had to approve those subdivision and drainage plans, so if the Council approved it...

6. Depending on the results of your research, I would be writing a form letter to all the neighbours, explaining the situation, your research and conclusions, and requesting cooperation. They may be interested in doing their own local research, in their own backyards, for their own benefit. You may also want to contact a Planning and Environment lawyer for some preliminary help and direction. Having the research ready beforehand will make things much easier;

7. FYI, following are a number of links I have collected. Some are from law firms; some are general Property Law Websites for laypeople, including Qld. At least one is from a Sydney company which commercially deals with storm water. One site includes a copy of your case!

Enjoy your reading, and I hope the links will enhance your knowledge and help direct you. I haven't touched on possible solutions because the facts and situation is still unclear.

Rain and Storm Water Problems Caused by Neighbours

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https://www.justanswer.com/australian-law/66qj4-neighbor-responsible-water-entering-property.html

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