VIC Recovering Debt from Interim Orders after Final Orders

[Frustratedperson]

Dear fellow forum followers,

I require some advice. Nearly at the end of a divorce settlement, but currently at a Mexican standoff.

The Interim Orders stated that my ex wife was required to pay her utilities commencing immediately after mediation up till she transferred the utilities into her name. Her debt stands at $1500 and after countless emails from my lawyer and myself prior to the issue of the final orders, she has refused to pay and continues to do so.

The final orders have been issued in which I have payed her the required cash, but I'm refusing to sign the house over until she pays her debt as a matter of principle. Her lawyer claims that because the final orders have been issued, she is no longer required to pay the debt, and that now I'm in breech and threatening to involve the registrar.

My lawyer is asking a phenomenal amount of money to pursue the issue, hence have not yet instructed her to proceed.

To those of you willing to provide advice, do i stand my ground and allow her lawyer to involve the registrar, or do i just sign the house over and apply for a enforcement order.

In the grand scheme of things, $1500 is not a lot and i should just let it go...BUT, getting away with what a judge has ordered is an invitation for continued bad behaviour because we are still attached at the hip.... children.

Thankyou for taking the time to read this, and look forward to some advice.

Steve

 

[sammy01]

You're asking us is it a good idea to pay a solicitor a huge amount, lets just say $2000 to chase a debt of $1500??? The answer is pretty obvious... Hell no. I don't give a stuff what principles you're trying to live by. I am trying to be nice here. But re-evaluate your principles... Just this once

Ok so scared of letting her think the ordres are not enforcable... Save your $$$ for when / if she breeches the kids orders... Sorry mate, but I think your principles suck. My kids are my focus. Save the $$$ you're gonna need it if she breeches on the kids stuff. In this case she 'thinks' she isn't breeching. She 'think' she has a different interpretation of the orders than you.

 

[Rod]

What do the final orders say? Often there is a clause saying all previous orders are dismissed. If this is the situation you ex's interpretation may well be correct because even though she didn't comply with all the interim orders, the final set of orders extinguishes any outstanding issues not already covered in the final orders. If this was important to you it should have been carried forward to the final orders. I'm thinking you now have to suck it up and move on.

 

[Rob Legat - SBPL]

I'm no family lawyer, but here are two very general propositions which apply in many parts of life:
1. Doing something 'out of principle' is likely to be costlier in the long run;
2. Failing to follow a court order, whether out of principle or because of a 'you didn't, so I won't' mentality, will not win you any friends at court.

There's a famous legal principle that if you want equity you must come with clean hands. Trying to get someone to do something is much easier when you've done what you need to do.

 

[Frustratedperson]

Hello Sammy, Rod and Rob,

Thanks very much for your replies.

Agree, suck it up and move on and clean the hands. That's precisely the advice i would pass on also, but, in my case, allowing her to defy these orders is an invitation to " continue to dance all over me".

The law, as i have experienced in the last 7 mths, is a complete joke. Basically our case involves a property settlement and parenting orders. Quite a simple case, we are not dealing with sheep stations or millions in shares.

Our relationship had broken down 6 years ago, but i hung in there for the kids until i could not live under the same roof for any longer.

I instructed a lawyer to write up a proposal after many failed attempts to negotiate with her. My proposal was fair and admirable, and after $56,000 in legal fee's, the court decided it was as well. So in the end, she only received what i had offered her in the beginning. I remained with the same lawyer throughout the entire drama, whilst she had gone through 5 different law firms and lawyers, one of which gave her the ass because her instructions were unreasonable. She is currently on the 3rd conveyance firm.

So from the beginning:
When my proposal was being drawn up, she was also in the background planning without my knowledge. After i finally handed her my proposal, I was expecting she would consult a lawyer, draw up her proposal, let the lawyers fight it out, mediate and if all avenues were exhausted take me to court. The very next day, my lawyer received notification from her lawyer stating that legal proceedings were in progress (they have not yet received any disclosure from me) and asked for instructions as to the forwarding of the paperwork. 10 minutes later, the ex wife rang me at work, told me the court date and that i had better turn up...Hmmmm.

I was not given the opportunity of any pre action procedure, no mediation or any form of negotiation. There were no factors involved ie violence, assault, emergency etc, that would have forfeited this right.

When i finally received her affidavit, she claimed i was moving large sums of money out of my bank accounts and that she wanted a ridiculous amount of money for spousal maintenance. No mention of the kids or property settlement. My bank statements were sent to her lawyer within the next 2 days proving her allegations about the bank accounts were false, so really the only reason for court was the spousal maintenance.

I went to court prepared. I had a proposed parenting plan, my property settlement proposal that not only include the house, but a large sum of money and a expectation we would settle.......s**t, what a fool to think this. Her preparation was purely money, no thought of a property settlement, no parenting plan proposal, just spousal maintenance. The outcome was in my favour, but no property settlement. Mediation was ordered, interim orders were put in place as from that day and a trial date set.

The matter was settled during mediation and the final orders drawn up.

Now, back to your statements of sucking it and cleaning the hands. During this journey:

1) She lied on her affidavit and didn't fully disclose. It was in fact her that was disposing of the money from her bank accounts into her mothers bank account to reduce her assets....consequences.....NOTHING

2) Documents requested for her to disclose by my lawyer were never received.......Consequences....NOTHING

3) She has not returned some of my personal belongings she stole whilst i was away 1 week prior to me moving out...consequences...NOTHING

4) Interim orders clearly state that she must pay the utilities effective immediately from the court date, and have the utilities transferred into her name as soon as possible. The money I'm requesting (hence the Mexican standoff) is from the court date up until the utilities were transferred into her name, which occurred prior to the Final Orders. The Final Orders state nothing about extinguishing the utilities from the interim orders.

And the parenting orders are another matter, but holy s**t:

1) Organizing activities for my children corresponding with my days without my knowledge

2) Being absolutely non flexible. An instant refusal is expected if i request a change of day due to my work commitments. But then i would receive a text from her stating i cannot have the kids on my day because she has a BBQ to attend.

3) Not turning up at the nominated time (or at all), to exchange the kids.

The list continue guys!!!!!!!!

The parenting orders are a separate issue to the interim orders and will require more money, lawyers and paperwork in the very near future. However, the interim orders spells it out clearly, and I'm relying on this statement to stand my ground as the starting point for her to (do as you are told)

I have done everything that has been asked of me promptly throughout this ordeal, except the property transfer. I have now held off for 4 weeks with the property transfer, so i guess i need to perhaps take your advice and clean my hands, save the money for the breeches and just suck it up.......buts it hard to let her continue to dance.

Regards
Steve

 

[sammy01]

Friend i feel your pain. But the advice does not change. Sure u might win this one... but your premise is that by winning this one she will learn she has to comply with all the other stuff... i think that premise is flawed.

 

[nat 2015]

Hello Sammy, Rod and Rob,

Thanks very much for your replies.

Agree, suck it up and move on and clean the hands. That's precisely the advice i would pass on also, but, in my case, allowing her to defy these orders is an invitation to " continue to dance all over me".

The law, as i have experienced in the last 7 mths, is a complete joke. Basically our case involves a property settlement and parenting orders. Quite a simple case, we are not dealing with sheep stations or millions in shares.

Our relationship had broken down 6 years ago, but i hung in there for the kids until i could not live under the same roof for any longer.

I instructed a lawyer to write up a proposal after many failed attempts to negotiate with her. My proposal was fair and admirable, and after $56,000 in legal fee's, the court decided it was as well. So in the end, she only received what i had offered her in the beginning. I remained with the same lawyer throughout the entire drama, whilst she had gone through 5 different law firms and lawyers, one of which gave her the ass because her instructions were unreasonable. She is currently on the 3rd conveyance firm.

So from the beginning:
When my proposal was being drawn up, she was also in the background planning without my knowledge. After i finally handed her my proposal, I was expecting she would consult a lawyer, draw up her proposal, let the lawyers fight it out, mediate and if all avenues were exhausted take me to court. The very next day, my lawyer received notification from her lawyer stating that legal proceedings were in progress (they have not yet received any disclosure from me) and asked for instructions as to the forwarding of the paperwork. 10 minutes later, the ex wife rang me at work, told me the court date and that i had better turn up...Hmmmm.

I was not given the opportunity of any pre action procedure, no mediation or any form of negotiation. There were no factors involved ie violence, assault, emergency etc, that would have forfeited this right.

When i finally received her affidavit, she claimed i was moving large sums of money out of my bank accounts and that she wanted a ridiculous amount of money for spousal maintenance. No mention of the kids or property settlement. My bank statements were sent to her lawyer within the next 2 days proving her allegations about the bank accounts were false, so really the only reason for court was the spousal maintenance.

I went to court prepared. I had a proposed parenting plan, my property settlement proposal that not only include the house, but a large sum of money and a expectation we would settle.......s**t, what a fool to think this. Her preparation was purely money, no thought of a property settlement, no parenting plan proposal, just spousal maintenance. The outcome was in my favour, but no property settlement. Mediation was ordered, interim orders were put in place as from that day and a trial date set.

The matter was settled during mediation and the final orders drawn up.

Now, back to your statements of sucking it and cleaning the hands. During this journey:

1) She lied on her affidavit and didn't fully disclose. It was in fact her that was disposing of the money from her bank accounts into her mothers bank account to reduce her assets....consequences.....NOTHING

2) Documents requested for her to disclose by my lawyer were never received.......Consequences....NOTHING

3) She has not returned some of my personal belongings she stole whilst i was away 1 week prior to me moving out...consequences...NOTHING

4) Interim orders clearly state that she must pay the utilities effective immediately from the court date, and have the utilities transferred into her name as soon as possible. The money I'm requesting (hence the Mexican standoff) is from the court date up until the utilities were transferred into her name, which occurred prior to the Final Orders. The Final Orders state nothing about extinguishing the utilities from the interim orders.

And the parenting orders are another matter, but holy s**t:

1) Organizing activities for my children corresponding with my days without my knowledge

2) Being absolutely non flexible. An instant refusal is expected if i request a change of day due to my work commitments. But then i would receive a text from her stating i cannot have the kids on my day because she has a BBQ to attend.

3) Not turning up at the nominated time (or at all), to exchange the kids.

The list continue guys!!!!!!!!

The parenting orders are a separate issue to the interim orders and will require more money, lawyers and paperwork in the very near future. However, the interim orders spells it out clearly, and I'm relying on this statement to stand my ground as the starting point for her to (do as you are told)

I have done everything that has been asked of me promptly throughout this ordeal, except the property transfer. I have now held off for 4 weeks with the property transfer, so i guess i need to perhaps take your advice and clean my hands, save the money for the breeches and just suck it up.......buts it hard to let her continue to dance.

Regards
Steve

What I don't understand with some people is the meaning of "FULL DISCLOSURE " my ex has off loaded so many assets and because he is self employed he has minimised his income next to nothing, how do some people sleep, I'm not one of these money hungry woman that some men like to betray us as, last time I checked men can and do behave the same way, I just want what is fair, but unfortunately in family law nothing is really far, especially if you have one party who is unreasonable, I struggle to support our children, I work 2 days a week and that income is used to pay childcare fees, the single mothers pension is nothing to get excited about for all those thinking we live the life on it.
The most important thing you can do thru this is use this forum to your advantage sure you might not like what you hear, and sure us posters might ask some questions that are silly. But all of us have 1 main goal and that is our children.

 

[Frustratedperson]

What I don't understand with some people is the meaning of "FULL DISCLOSURE " my ex has off loaded so many assets and because he is self employed he has minimised his income next to nothing, how do some people sleep, I'm not one of these money hungry woman that some men like to betray us as, last time I checked men can and do behave the same way, I just want what is fair, but unfortunately in family law nothing is really far, especially if you have one party who is unreasonable, I struggle to support our children, I work 2 days a week and that income is used to pay childcare fees, the single mothers pension is nothing to get excited about for all those thinking we live the life on it.
The most important thing you can do thru this is use this forum to your advantage sure you might not like what you hear, and sure us posters might ask some questions that are silly. But all of us have 1 main goal and that is our children.

Hi Nat,

Thanks for your input. I'm certainly not money hungry and my main goal are the kids....number one priority. I agree, there are no winners in family law, but things can certainly be much easier if the other party wasn't excessively greedy. I understand your struggle and it appears you have been betrayed without knowing the full story.

I offered my wife the family home, a new car, no mortgage and a large sum of cash. This worked out to be about 50% of my assets. In addition to child support (happy to pay this), to keep my kids at the private school which they love, I offered to pay all of the school fee's, uniforms, excursions etc until their education is complete. And to top it off, also happy to pay all the dental fee's. Now Nat, would you be happy with this???????? In my case she wasn't, and wanted what i offered plus an additional 30% of my assets.

My attitude towards the law has changed considerably over the previous year. You can show evidence of nastiness, betrayal, deceit and just plain non human behavior by the other half, but the court just don't give a s**t. And now, it appears court orders are meaningless as well. You try and get help and advice, but they all refer you back to your lawyer....a vicious circle.

I must say that the money you pay on lawyers and barristers, i have yet to see anything extraordinary from any of them.

Regards
Steve

 

[CSFLW]

Hi Frustrated

It is very common in family law to hear that people pay a lot of money to their lawyers and do not feel they have achieved anything.

Also a common complaint is the that court orders are meaningless.

Obviously, your ex-partner has no intention to follow the orders.

The best course of action from herein is to organise a mediation if you ex-partner does not comply with the parenting orders.

You do not need lawyer to do this.

I hope this helps.

 

[Frustratedperson]

I'm no family lawyer, but here are two very general propositions which apply in many parts of life:
1. Doing something 'out of principle' is likely to be costlier in the long run;
2. Failing to follow a court order, whether out of principle or because of a 'you didn't, so I won't' mentality, will not win you any friends at court.

There's a famous legal principle that if you want equity you must come with clean hands. Trying to get someone to do something is much easier when you've done what you need to do.

Hi Rob, thanks for your response. May i ask you a question concerning property settlement.

The final orders state that the transfer of the property shall be at the expense of the wife. Does this mean she is responsible to cover the $1100 for my conveyance???

Thanks
Regards
Steve