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QLD Motorbike Speeding Fine - Three Motorbikes in Photo?

Discussion in 'Traffic Law Forum' started by alan hamon, 9 February 2015.

  1. alan hamon

    alan hamon Member

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    I have just received a speeding fine in the post with a photo and was wanting to know if I should contest the fine as there are 3 motorbikes in the photo?
    1 is me at the front, 2 is about 2 meters behind me travelling in the same direction and the 3rd motorbike is on the other side of the road .
     
  2. Tracy B

    Tracy B Well-Known Member

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    Hi Alan,

    Do you believe you were not speeding? Was the speed measured by a hand-held detector or automatic detector?

    In any case, it is unlikely that the machine would have mis-read another bike's speed and attributed this to you as these machines tend to be quite precise at measuring each individual vehicle as it passes a particular point.

    Unless you have good reason to believe you were not speeding at the time and you can show this to court, the mere fact there are two other vehicles near you at the time the speed detection was taken will unlikely persuade the court that the detection is invalid or erroneous.
     
  3. Sophea

    Sophea Well-Known Member

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  4. Rod

    Rod Well-Known Member

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    Hi Alan,

    You may have case but getting a magistrate to accept the scientific basis can be a challenge.

    You need to find out how far away from the camera you were when it measured you speed. You need to try and find out what kind of camera technology it used (Radar, Lidar etc) and work out the size the 'cone' would be for the distance you and the other motorcycles were in at the time. If more than one bike was in this 'cone', there is no way the police can know which bike returned the speed reading.

    And of course, all you should have to do is provide reasonable doubt it was not you, but one of the other bikes. Remember the onus of proof is on the prosecution, not you.

    All the best, let us know how you go.
     
  5. alan hamon

    alan hamon Member

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    Thanks for that and I will let you know how I go.

    The camera says 55 meters and all three bikes are within 5 meters. Camera model is TruCAM LTI 20-20. Wish I could share the picture :(
     
  6. Rod

    Rod Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, OK so it is a LIDAR device. At 55 m you are close to the camera and the beam diameter is <200mm.

    Don't like your chances unless from the camera perspective the other bikes appear right next to you.

    You can try bluffing the prosecutor and magistrate with science and ask the camera operator hard questions about LIDAR to see how knowledgeable they are. If they can't answer questions it throws up doubt, and doubt for you is good.

    Read up on the operation of these devices and if you go to court, have a list of questions ready, like what time of day, weather conditions, how was the camera used (standing next to car? in car? was window up? what was the air temperature, how was the camera supported (look for possibility of hand movement)? When was the camera tested? Where is the camera compliance certificate? Talk about scattered signals and ask them to prove they didn't get readings from the other bikes.
     
  7. Rod

    Rod Well-Known Member

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    Also found this:

    UK Speedtrap Guide. Radar, GPS and Laser radar detector guide. Especially like the bit that refers to the device that caught you!

    Lifted straight from page:

     
  8. Phildo

    Phildo Well-Known Member

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    There are rules about which photos are acceptable and which ones cannot be used.

    For Western Australia: Do some web searching and you'll find the Vitronic Poliscan Operators Manual (it's a PDF). This is the manual that the police have, and it also defines which photos are acceptable.

    For other states and countries: No idea, but a read of the Vitronic manual will teach you a lot about the rules regarding photos.

    Naturally, you would want to go and view the original photo.

    If you want to get really carried away, there are devices that you can fit to a vehicle that prevent laser-based devices from getting a speed reading.
     

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