QLD Motorbike Speeding Fine - Three Motorbikes in Photo?

[alan hamon]

I have just received a speeding fine in the post with a photo and was wanting to know if I should contest the fine as there are 3 motorbikes in the photo?
1 is me at the front, 2 is about 2 meters behind me travelling in the same direction and the 3rd motorbike is on the other side of the road .

 

[Tracy B]

Hi Alan,

Do you believe you were not speeding? Was the speed measured by a hand-held detector or automatic detector?

In any case, it is unlikely that the machine would have mis-read another bike's speed and attributed this to you as these machines tend to be quite precise at measuring each individual vehicle as it passes a particular point.

Unless you have good reason to believe you were not speeding at the time and you can show this to court, the mere fact there are two other vehicles near you at the time the speed detection was taken will unlikely persuade the court that the detection is invalid or erroneous.

 

[Sophea]

Hi Alan,

Yes your only chance of getting out of the fine is a leniency request which is really only available if you can prove with documentary evidence that the speedometer on your vehicle was displaying inaccurate readings at the time of the offence. Refer to this website for more info: https://www.police.qld.gov.au/programs/roadSafety/infringement/demeritpoints.htm

 

[Rod]

Hi Alan,

You may have case but getting a magistrate to accept the scientific basis can be a challenge.

You need to find out how far away from the camera you were when it measured you speed. You need to try and find out what kind of camera technology it used (Radar, Lidar etc) and work out the size the 'cone' would be for the distance you and the other motorcycles were in at the time. If more than one bike was in this 'cone', there is no way the police can know which bike returned the speed reading.

And of course, all you should have to do is provide reasonable doubt it was not you, but one of the other bikes. Remember the onus of proof is on the prosecution, not you.

All the best, let us know how you go.

 

[alan hamon]

Thanks for that and I will let you know how I go.

The camera says 55 meters and all three bikes are within 5 meters. Camera model is TruCAM LTI 20-20. Wish I could share the picture

 

[Rod]

Hmm, OK so it is a LIDAR device. At 55 m you are close to the camera and the beam diameter is <200mm.

Don't like your chances unless from the camera perspective the other bikes appear right next to you.

You can try bluffing the prosecutor and magistrate with science and ask the camera operator hard questions about LIDAR to see how knowledgeable they are. If they can't answer questions it throws up doubt, and doubt for you is good.

Read up on the operation of these devices and if you go to court, have a list of questions ready, like what time of day, weather conditions, how was the camera used (standing next to car? in car? was window up? what was the air temperature, how was the camera supported (look for possibility of hand movement)? When was the camera tested? Where is the camera compliance certificate? Talk about scattered signals and ask them to prove they didn't get readings from the other bikes.

 

[Rod]

Also found this:

UK Speedtrap Guide. Radar, GPS and Laser radar detector guide. Especially like the bit that refers to the device that caught you!

Lifted straight from page:

Things they don't tell you about Laser Guns
Similar to radar, laser cannot be used in the rain, snow, or high dust environments. Laser takes precise aiming, radar does not. Like radar, laser is susceptible to cosine error.
Cosine Error is the angle from the 0 degree perpendicular to the target vehicle. The greater the cosine angle the greater the error. However, cosine error is always in favour of the motorist, i.e. speed readings will be proportionally less than actual speed of the target vehicle.

Sweep Error is manifested when the laser is aimed at one part of the vehicle, say the licence plate, and due to the motion of the operator, the laser also targets a side mirror during the same trigger pull. Sweep Error adds to the real speed of the target vehicle.

Refection Error is next. On very hot days with low humidity a visible mirage/reflection of the target vehicle is created. In many cases, when the laser is aimed at the target vehicle the infrared beam also receives readings from both the target vehicle and the mirage causing a Sweep error.

Overexposure Error is last. When a laser gun receives an extremely powerful reflective signal, such as a sunflare off a vehicle, the computer's timer can not see the return of the 904 nanometer signal it sent. It can not compute a speed-reading. In general, the laser gun is looking for the strongest return reflection of its own emitted beam for speed computation.

A recent court case in the USA has thrown a doubt on the accuracy of the LTI 20-20. At a recess in the proceedings the defendant's lawyer picked up the LTI 20-20 from the courtroom bench and proceeded to aim it at the back wall of the courtroom. To his complete astonishment, the gun registered a speed of 5.4mph. Bear in mind that he was aiming at a wall inside a building. He also noted how difficult it was to maintain his target accuracy by simply hand holding the device, with the registered speed fluctuating between -2.2mph and +5.4mph. A net error of nearly 8mph on a stationary object 20m away!

The defendant managed to successfully prove that not only was the gun too heavy to use to reliably pick out a vehicle at 150metres without a tripod, but that it's technology was fundamentally flawed.

Several US states have now banned the LTI 20-20 due to it being inaccurate
in certain conditions......... More Here.

 

[Phildo]

There are rules about which photos are acceptable and which ones cannot be used.

For Western Australia: Do some web searching and you'll find the Vitronic Poliscan Operators Manual (it's a PDF). This is the manual that the police have, and it also defines which photos are acceptable.

For other states and countries: No idea, but a read of the Vitronic manual will teach you a lot about the rules regarding photos.

Naturally, you would want to go and view the original photo.

If you want to get really carried away, there are devices that you can fit to a vehicle that prevent laser-based devices from getting a speed reading.