QLD father refuses to co-operate or negotiate to see his children! Need a legal agreement

[Mumma_bear90]

Trying to keep a long story short..

I left my partner 2.5yrs ago. When we separated I moved close by with a relative to try and co-parent, however this didn’t work, tried counselling and he could not agree to regular days he would have the children, A lot of arguing and an overall toxic environment for the children. I ended up moving away to be close to my parents while I went through divorce as there was a history of verbal abuse and abuse turning physical towards the end.

Where I moved is still in the same state however it’s a flight away. Their dad wasn’t happy of course and I tried to make it work. I paid for flights and sent the children (7 and 5) to be with him for 2 weeks over Xmas holidays, they missed their flight home because their father decided he was keeping them (to spite me) sending me photos of them asleep saying “I hope this hurts” and “you will never see them again”

On New Year’s Eve he sent me pictures of him self harming, I called a family member who called the police and the family member took the children somewhere safe. He was home the next day and got the children back again. The police and solicitor said even though he was not stable, because their was no agreement in place they could not help in the return of the children.

I flew down and took my children back. (I think it was a ploy to get me there.. not really wanting the children full time as he never was a ‘fulltime’ father)

Since then I have arranged mediation (which failed because he wanted to just blame and abuse and not co-operate or compromise at all)

I have constantly emailed him to negotiate with me on how the children can maintain a relationship with him, I said he is welcome here whenever, or the children can visit every school holidays If we were to go halves in flights and sign a consent order stating they will be sent back at the end of each holidays.

He refuses to sign the order and threatens me with lawyers and stating he will get them back for good. Telling the children daddy is coming to get you, and also emailing things like “if I don’t see my kids for years it will all be worth it when they grow to hate you for not seeing me”

I genuinely believe he is a narcissist whom doesn’t actually want the children fulltime, he would just rather blame and hate me ?


All I want is something in place to ensure the kids aren’t kept if they were to ever visit their dad. I want them to have a relationship but I cannot trust to send them to him, with a risk of withholding them to hurt me? I’ve had a consent order drawn up he refuses to sign, I don’t know what more I can do? However, We cannot live with no agreement either? Something must happen.

Part of me is worried about ever sending them as he stays up all night, sleeps half the day and has random friends over drinking / doing drugs a few times a week. However I know I can’t just keep them from him or him from them and I’m just afraid the next time I allow them to see eachother he could do a runner with them and I have nothing to support gaining custody.


Where do I go from here?!

 

[sammy01]

Look, it seems to be that you're being reasonable. If he won't negotiate around consent orders, then that is his problem not yours. Ordinarily I'd sound pretty nasty to someone like you. So you moved away, without consent. Imagine if he did that to YOU? and took the kids? So you don't want to give him a chance to do to you, the exact same thing you did to him?

But - hey you did try to facilitate visits and based on how that went I reckon it is reasonable for you to want orders in place otherwise these kids are gonna spend their lives moving from one house to another in a chaotic and conflicted way. Not good for them.
Short version. Offer him consent orders.. Good, done that... Invite him to compromise around them... if he doesn't want to play, then ignore him. BTW he could have applied to court. His choice not to indicates that he doesn't really want formal arrangements. His reason for that is his problem not yours

 

[Mumma_bear90]

Thankyou for your honesty and reply.
My post was trying to cut a long story short and a lot of reasons why I left and how hard I tried to avoid leaving, I lived elsewhere for 6 months trying to organize regular days where he would have the children so I could work and they could see him etc, but his “hectic busy entrepreneur lifestyle” made it hard to commit to days for various reasons. I did explain this and said I’d move to be with my parents if we couldn’t sort it out. Now I’ve made a life for my children better than my wildest dreams, they are excelling at school, I have a career, and they aren’t hearing all the toxic arguing etc. he still manages to make them cry with guilt when they call. I feel he would see them far more if it were every school holidays than he would having us live around the corner, he would be too interested in me and what I was doing than time with the children.

I can ignore him because he doesn’t want to compromise (as you suggested) however I want something formal in place should the children want to see him and I make it happen by taking them there. Is taking him to court a worthy option?

 

[sammy01]

I am blunt...
So the contradiction... He doesn't want to see them... Ok. Good with that. But you're worried that of you provided access he would keep them. So which is it? His busy lifestyle means he doesn't want to have the kids all that much? or he is prepared to have them all the time? I will leave you to ponder that.

Calm down... keep reading...

Ok so there are two sides to every story... But one version of this story is you moved the kids away from dad with no regard for him or his relationship with the kids and you've stopped him seeing them ever since.
Now regardless, court orders, consent orders, parenting plan, what ever, if you send the kids to him. He could keep them. Sure court / consent orders will get you into court earlier, but the kids will still be in this crazy situation where they all of a sudden are with dad and you'll have to apply to court. So I guess one argument is that those bits of paper that are stamped from the court don't immediately mean he will play by the rules. So really why not send the kids? As along as you have an email, some sort of documentation to show that it was an agreed short term visit, then that will help in court.

Calm down... Keep reading.


Good... The alternate perspective is that if he has not appled to court, refuses any agreement, such as half holidays well stop trying. If you have good documented evidence. Text messages etc where dad is clearly manipulating the kids and based on some of the other stuff you've written which is threatening and intimidatory, then I'd suggest the best thing for the kids is to be kept away from him...

Taking him to court? not worth it. The fact that he hasn't taken you to court suggest to me it is just games. If my ex moved a substantial distance away with my kids without consent, I'd have her in court in no time... Why hasn't he? don't know... don't care. But it is worth you thinking about for a while...

Story time - the kids live with me. They vist the other parent 8 times a year. They often come back with knits, daughter's hair looks like dreadlocks as it has not been washed or brushed for the whole time they are with the other parent. The kids tell me they are smacked (not illegal in NSW) The other parent smokes in the car in their presence, among other stuff. Now none of it is grounds to keep the kids away from the parent. Sure I'm not happy about it, but I would not want to defend myself in court for stopping access based on the stuff above. WHY? Well most if it the ex will deny, it is hearsay / unprovable. However, if as in your case, dad has made threats, like texting you to say you'll never see them again amoung other crazy stuff - then you have a pretty good case to stop all contact and let him initiate court action if he wants...

So in your post you have not stated how long ago you moved away? If it is more than 12 months and he has not applied to court then that horse has bolted. I would suggest that if you think it is safe for the kids to visit for 2 weeks of the next school holidays then offer him two weeks. If he rejects that, then fine. BUT if you have real concerns for the welfare of the kids in his care... IF you do, then don't...

BTW - even if you have court orders and dad doesn't return the kids, the cops will not go knock on his door and collect the kids. So even with court orders, if he did withold them, you'd be required to apply to court to have them returned. Sure you'd get into court faster... But court would still be an option.

So my perspective is that if one parent moves away with the kids like you have done, then you have a huge responsibility to ensure the kids get to spend time with dad. Far more than his responsibility. (not legal opinion / advice - just my perspective).. Story time.. My ex did try to move away with the kids. In her head, she felt it reasonable that once she move away I should do all the travel to see the kids. WHY? Well she would be too busy raising the kids. The kids chuck on long car trips. No magistrate would be interested in that sort of crap. But it indicated to me that IF she did get to move away she would do all she could to make it hard for me to see the kids. So now you see my perspective (i hope) I reckon you ought to do all you can to facilitate visits and court orders are not the panacea to fix all problems... So refusing access until there are court orders in place is no great defence for preventing kids from seeing their dad.... The only reason for my argument to be wrong, is if there are real concerns for the welfare of the kids while with dad (I reckon you come pretty close to reaching the benchmark on that one) or that is a fair likelyhood that the kids will be witheld and that will cause them all sorts of anxiety, having to change schools while this gets worked out in court and all the other carzy that goes with such a scenario (I reckon you meet the benchmark on that one). Which leads me back to the original piece of advice. Ignore him.