NSW Family Court - Contact with Children Over the Top?

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stepmum

Well-Known Member
17 December 2018
29
0
121
Just outa interest, what is the nature of all these messages?
Congratulations on getting engaged.
Not much from here on in that you're gonna like... But it is well intentioned.

A long long time a go in a galaxy far far away....
Children played outside happily. On every other street corner was a public phone and everyone survived. MOBILE phones did not exist. Everyone was happy. The end.

You are dealing with a nutter - Worse than Darth Vader... This force to too great for the legal system of this great nation to defend. The family court is useless against this evil. No court can make an order that stipulates that a fool must stop being a fool...
So maybe - maybe the legal system could help... So you could seek a court order stipulating times for calls. Rules about text messaging. But she won't follow it and you're wasting your time and money going back to court to do a contravention because she texts too much.

No legal advice from here on, just some life experience.
Camomile tea time....
YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.

Story time.... I had a parenting plan at one point... I could call the kids on Tuesday and Thursday at 6pm. It never happened. I call at 5.59. No answer, then a message saying I had to ring at 6pm and it is past 6pm so don't bother. If I rang at 6pm she'd tell me they were in the bath, or some other BS... MADNESS. But I kept ringing every Tuesday and Thursday... It was a little game for her, a reminder that she was winning, she had all the power and control and it was pissing me of no end.

Then I stopped. No call on Tuesday, nope not Thursday either... I got text messages accusing me of ignoring my kids. Didn't respond. Text messages telling me how bad it would look in court if I could not be bothered calling my own kids. blah blah blah. Then there were the text messages / emails all the other bs. It was sending me mad. She would email me a tirade of madness and then text message to tell me I had an hour to respond. BUT - I'm a work, like normal people, I can't just down tools to deal with crazy lady... But it was sending me insane. Chain smoking nail biting hair gone grey insane.

So change your approach. See this is all about power and control. You have to break that cycle. Now this is a bit tougher when you've got kids with phones. See you wrote in your last post that you cop a barage of abuse if you don't reply in 5 minutes... U'm so what? why do you care? What does it matter?
Seriously, I want you to answer those questions.

See you need to get your head around the fact that it doesn't matter and you should not care if she accuses you of this or that. And until you learn that skill YOU ARE THE PROBLEM. You're gonna spend your whole life sh*t scared of the sound of mobile phones. You're like Pavlov's dogs in reverse. Everytime the phone rings you have a little panic attack. YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.

What to do with kids? HHMM - 4 hours a day with no phones. Your house - your rules. The weather is getting warmer. Go camping, Have a back to nature, no phone weekend. Oh what fun... Have a strict - No phones on after 8pm rule. It is bad to be on a screen that close to bed time. Your house YOUR RULES.

Final rant. The one liner... So the ex would email / text all sort of crap. The kids are allergic to dogs, I need to get rid of the dog. The kids clothes got ruined when they were at my house, I need to be more responsible. blah blah. For a long time I'd try and reason with her... Dear NUTTER, can you please provide me with a doctor's certificate that shows the kids have been diagnosed with an alergy to dogs?
Her response? "How dare you question my authority as the mother of MY children. You owe me an apology"

Then I started applying the one liner strategy... "ok, thanks for that. Please keep me updated"
Most of the crap she was writing didn't need a response and any response I gave would be the wrong one. But, it isn't about the response. It is about power and control. I wasn't texting her and demanding SHE respond within an hour. s**t, I can't imagine ever having the courage to do that.... And while she had the power and control and I was letting her walk all over me. I was the problem....
So Imagine a series of text messages
HER - You didn't clean the kids clothes, my children are tired and grumpy because you let them stay up late. You really need to learn to be a better father.
ME -ok, thanks for that. Please keep me updated.
HER - What sort of answer is that. FFS take some responsibility.
ME - ok, thanks for that. Please keep me updated.

See, I was no longer buying into her crazy sh*t.... And it was pissing her off... I wasn't playing her game anymore. I had my own game and she hated it... I felt empowered and it felt good. Short version, you need to change the dynamics of the relationship and you need to be consistent with your approach, once you do that, you just might find the text messages don't come as much because you're response is no longer fueling her sense of power and control.
I should write a book.


Hi Sammy,

Thank you.

Wow sounds exactly like what we are dealing with. The messages to us always has some reference to the children. For example: We have started taking the children's phones off them as soon as dinner has begun. (They spend way to much time on the phones hence why.) So we get a message to the effect of children hate you taking their phones off them as they are unable to contact me and are so distraught over it etc etc.
Our solicitor has advised that we are to respond to all messages pertaining to the children even ones like that. We did respond with Thanks for letting me know. Yes it drove her crazy and we copped abuse and we ignored it. We were advised that we should have been more sensitive to the issue. If we don't communicate in a reasonable manner it will not look good for us. I don't see why though.

The messages to the children are asking them constantly are you ok?, You sad?, Is your dad being nice to you and is he looking after you properly.

I dislike it so much as I feel we shouldn't have to respond with an essay. I agree with what you said. Thanks for letting me know and keep me updated should be fine when it is not a life or death situation just rambling because she can.

Here is one for you. We were advised that if we were to have a technology free weekend we were to tell BM that's what we are doing. Mind you she has stated in her proposed consent orders like us that other parent call Sundays between 4 - 5 pm. We would have been available like we are every Sunday we have them. Isn't that our house our rules? Or am I wrong? Of course if there was an emergency or anything we would let her know.

Oh yes you should write a book.

Again thank you. As usual I have taken on board all that you have said. It does help:)
 

LovingDad1973

Well-Known Member
9 July 2019
55
2
199
Just outa interest, what is the nature of all these messages?
Congratulations on getting engaged.
Not much from here on in that you're gonna like... But it is well intentioned.

A long long time a go in a galaxy far far away....
Children played outside happily. On every other street corner was a public phone and everyone survived. MOBILE phones did not exist. Everyone was happy. The end.

You are dealing with a nutter - Worse than Darth Vader... This force to too great for the legal system of this great nation to defend. The family court is useless against this evil. No court can make an order that stipulates that a fool must stop being a fool...
So maybe - maybe the legal system could help... So you could seek a court order stipulating times for calls. Rules about text messaging. But she won't follow it and you're wasting your time and money going back to court to do a contravention because she texts too much.

No legal advice from here on, just some life experience.
Camomile tea time....
YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.

Story time.... I had a parenting plan at one point... I could call the kids on Tuesday and Thursday at 6pm. It never happened. I call at 5.59. No answer, then a message saying I had to ring at 6pm and it is past 6pm so don't bother. If I rang at 6pm she'd tell me they were in the bath, or some other BS... MADNESS. But I kept ringing every Tuesday and Thursday... It was a little game for her, a reminder that she was winning, she had all the power and control and it was pissing me of no end.

Then I stopped. No call on Tuesday, nope not Thursday either... I got text messages accusing me of ignoring my kids. Didn't respond. Text messages telling me how bad it would look in court if I could not be bothered calling my own kids. blah blah blah. Then there were the text messages / emails all the other bs. It was sending me mad. She would email me a tirade of madness and then text message to tell me I had an hour to respond. BUT - I'm a work, like normal people, I can't just down tools to deal with crazy lady... But it was sending me insane. Chain smoking nail biting hair gone grey insane.

So change your approach. See this is all about power and control. You have to break that cycle. Now this is a bit tougher when you've got kids with phones. See you wrote in your last post that you cop a barage of abuse if you don't reply in 5 minutes... U'm so what? why do you care? What does it matter?
Seriously, I want you to answer those questions.

See you need to get your head around the fact that it doesn't matter and you should not care if she accuses you of this or that. And until you learn that skill YOU ARE THE PROBLEM. You're gonna spend your whole life sh*t scared of the sound of mobile phones. You're like Pavlov's dogs in reverse. Everytime the phone rings you have a little panic attack. YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.

What to do with kids? HHMM - 4 hours a day with no phones. Your house - your rules. The weather is getting warmer. Go camping, Have a back to nature, no phone weekend. Oh what fun... Have a strict - No phones on after 8pm rule. It is bad to be on a screen that close to bed time. Your house YOUR RULES.

Final rant. The one liner... So the ex would email / text all sort of crap. The kids are allergic to dogs, I need to get rid of the dog. The kids clothes got ruined when they were at my house, I need to be more responsible. blah blah. For a long time I'd try and reason with her... Dear NUTTER, can you please provide me with a doctor's certificate that shows the kids have been diagnosed with an alergy to dogs?
Her response? "How dare you question my authority as the mother of MY children. You owe me an apology"

Then I started applying the one liner strategy... "ok, thanks for that. Please keep me updated"
Most of the crap she was writing didn't need a response and any response I gave would be the wrong one. But, it isn't about the response. It is about power and control. I wasn't texting her and demanding SHE respond within an hour. s**t, I can't imagine ever having the courage to do that.... And while she had the power and control and I was letting her walk all over me. I was the problem....
So Imagine a series of text messages
HER - You didn't clean the kids clothes, my children are tired and grumpy because you let them stay up late. You really need to learn to be a better father.
ME -ok, thanks for that. Please keep me updated.
HER - What sort of answer is that. FFS take some responsibility.
ME - ok, thanks for that. Please keep me updated.

See, I was no longer buying into her crazy sh*t.... And it was pissing her off... I wasn't playing her game anymore. I had my own game and she hated it... I felt empowered and it felt good. Short version, you need to change the dynamics of the relationship and you need to be consistent with your approach, once you do that, you just might find the text messages don't come as much because you're response is no longer fueling her sense of power and control.
I should write a book.

The OP should read carefully the words of wisdom sammy01 has written as they provide lessons that have obviously been hard-learned and provide excellent advice.

My 2c worth. Back in the bad days when I was at interim hearing stage I had a similar problem. I was literally receiving significantly more messages from my ex than when I was bloody well married to her.

Some changes I made were:

#1. Unless there was something urgent (which there never was) I replied to her messages twice per day - say midday and in the evening. This removed a lot of the weird pleasure my ex was getting by having me forever on immediate standby to respond to her messages. My ex just had to accept that this was the way it was and it did not harm me in Family Court. Remember the ex is trying to control your partner - don't let her do that
#2. Like sammy01 I removed the emotion from my responses. Most of the BS my ex wrote did not require a detailed response and my response nearly always just resulted in a vicious circle of message, reply, message, rinse repeat. A simple polite thanks, best regards etc is hard to turn into an argument
#3. I stopped calling my daughters very much when they weren't with me. At first, I felt that the right thing to do was call EVERY evening to let them know I loved them. But tbh we didnt have too much to discuss from one call to the next and I felt it was becoming a bit of a hassle for my eldest daughter to chat EVERY evening. Don't get me wrong I would call them but by reducing the number of calls I improved the quality of the conversations. The number and frequency of calls did not come up in the documents for final trial.
#4. I didn't get worried if I missed a call from the ex to my girls when they were with me. I returned the call before the girls went to sleep.
#5. At Family Court a parenting communication app was recommended to us, which we both still use. Its worth the annual subscription as it removes the emotion from the texting (it even analyses the structure of the sentences you use and suggests ways to improve what you write so its less judgemental), parenting messages are consigned to the app so sms messages aren't abused, it lets you know when your message is read, its easy to print off all messages for Family Court if needed etc. It has a whole load of other functionality which we rarely use like expenses, calendar etc. Take a look: OurFamilyWizard | The Best Co-Parenting App

As sammy01 alluded to, you have to change your thinking on what battle you fight if this goes to final trial. Focus on what's in the best interests of the children. For me my final trial affidavit focussed a lot on the quality of life the children had while in my care So I had receipts for all the activities etc I did with them, rental inspections to show that I provided a proper home environment for the children, personal references from people who knew me and could attest that I was a very level headed, responsible person whose first priority was the best interests of my children etc. Don't let the nutter ex drag you down to her level and then beat you with experience

I hope that helps and best of luck
 
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stepmum

Well-Known Member
17 December 2018
29
0
121
The OP should read carefully the words of wisdom sammy01 has written as they provide lessons that have obviously been hard-learned and provide excellent advice.

My 2c worth. Back in the bad days when I was at interim hearing stage I had a similar problem. I was literally receiving significantly more messages from my ex than when I was bloody well married to her.

Some changes I made were:

#1. Unless there was something urgent (which there never was) I replied to her messages twice per day - say midday and in the evening. This removed a lot of the weird pleasure my ex was getting by having me forever on immediate standby to respond to her messages. My ex just had to accept that this was the way it was and it did not harm me in Family Court. Remember the ex is trying to control your partner - don't let her do that
#2. Like sammy01 I removed the emotion from my responses. Most of the BS my ex wrote did not require a detailed response and my response nearly always just resulted in a vicious circle of message, reply, message, rinse repeat. A simple polite thanks, best regards etc is hard to turn into an argument
#3. I stopped calling my daughters very much when they weren't with me. At first, I felt that the right thing to do was call EVERY evening to let them know I loved them. But tbh we didnt have too much to discuss from one call to the next and I felt it was becoming a bit of a hassle for my eldest daughter to chat EVERY evening. Don't get me wrong I would call them but by reducing the number of calls I improved the quality of the conversations. The number and frequency of calls did not come up in the documents for final trial.
#4. I didn't get worried if I missed a call from the ex to my girls when they were with me. I returned the call before the girls went to sleep.
#5. At Family Court a parenting communication app was recommended to us, which we both still use. Its worth the annual subscription as it removes the emotion from the texting (it even analyses the structure of the sentences you use and suggests ways to improve what you write so its less judgemental), parenting messages are consigned to the app so sms messages aren't abused, it lets you know when your message is read, its easy to print off all messages for Family Court if needed etc. It has a whole load of other functionality which we rarely use like expenses, calendar etc. Take a look: OurFamilyWizard | The Best Co-Parenting App

As sammy01 alluded to, you have to change your thinking on what battle you fight if this goes to final trial. Focus on what's in the best interests of the children. For me my final trial affidavit focussed a lot on the quality of life the children had while in my care So I had receipts for all the activities etc I did with them, rental inspections to show that I provided a proper home environment for the children, personal references from people who knew me and could attest that I was a very level headed, responsible person whose first priority was the best interests of my children etc. Don't let the nutter ex drag you down to her level and then beat you with experience

I hope that helps and best of luck


Thank you for your advice. It has helped a lot. I had my partner read your reply and a few others I received and he just can't believe how many people are and have gone through. It has helped so much and we have put your advice along with other advice in place.

Thank you again:)