NSW Family Court - Contact with Children Over the Top?

Discussion in 'Family Law Forum' started by stepmum, 14 May 2019.

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  1. stepmum

    stepmum Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Sammy.
    He has requested that they mediate in separate rooms and the mediator go-between. She has legal aid solicitor who I think is not being listened to. If we go to an interim hearing what happens at that hearing? We have also been told it is lots of $$$. We are always positive and try under the circumstances to have routine and lots of love in our house. They are beautiful children and it’s so sad to see them go through what they do under her controlling ways.
     
  2. Jake Matherson

    Jake Matherson Well-Known Member

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    If she is and continues to ignore legal aid advice then they will pull funding and she will have to self represent or get a lawyer.
    For instance legal aid wont fund an entire court case all the way to trial when its obvious that one party is being completely unreasonable.

    Your interim hearing is a hearing before a Registrar/Judge where you both plead your case and they will make a decision about the parenting arrangements for the interim period between now and a final trial as well as other procedural orders such as do this parenting course, get a family report done etc....

    Unlike a directions hearing at your interim hearing the Registrar can make a decision without the consent of all parties.
    You or your lawyer would have filed paperwork at the start of this including the Interim and Final Orders that you would be seeking.
    At the Interim hearing you are fighting to have what you asked for implemented. The court will look at your paperwork and you will have some back and forth arguments with the Registrar and the other party about why you should get what you asked for.

    This hearing is VERY IMPORTANT as the parenting Orders handed down could be in place for 1-3 years pending final trial if you have a party unwilling to negotiate at any subsequent directions hearings.

    If you are being represented for this hearing you would expect it will cost you $3k if you get a barrister involved expect another $3k but as I said the Orders you get at this Interim hearing will be with you for a long time so it is important that you get it right.
     
  3. stepmum

    stepmum Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Jake,

    Her affidavit is quite surprising not what we were expecting as she would always text that the kids are stressed out and they emotionally dump on her when they come back from our house etc etc but the affidavit is nothing like we expected. When you look at it she has nothing really. It was 5 pages long pretty much dumping on my partner of what he does wrong and saying she was the one who looked after the kids not him. It really was all about her. There was maybe 2 mentions of issues with the kids. 1 being we didn't tell her last week who the youngest was with when he was unwell and that her daughters on the phone after 8.30pm at night. Mind you it's actually her that is texting her daughter lol. All annexures were from last week as for the past two years she has nothing. It was her doing the abusing not us. The only thing she is using is a ADVO that she put on him 4 years ago. She is really playing on that now. It was all lies but he didn't have the money to fight it. My thoughts on this being a mother myself, if you were that concerned about your children's welfare then why did you hand them back to him 1 week after the ADVO and have him come to your house. She also could have filed for full custody if she was that concerned. It's not about the children though it's about having control.

    Our biggest worry is she lies so much that the court will believe her lies and go her way. I know we have evidence where she has contradicted herself and lied but it is still worrying as loosing his kids would destroy my partner.

    I feel like we have a strong case as we do not want to agree with any of it. The change would ruin his son.
     
  4. Jake Matherson

    Jake Matherson Well-Known Member

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    In these early stages all the court has to go off is you paperwork.

    If your paperwork is clear, concise, factual and relevant whilst hers is garbage the court will see this.

    Essentially every man and their dog has a DVO against them in Family Court. By the sounds of it your partners is a load of crap, years old and I'm going to assume no breaches or bad behaviour.
    I wouldn't expect the court will give you much grief based on how the court is handling my matter and my DVO given that mine is much more recent and I would speculate much more serious (also a load of crap).

    Putting child safety concerns to the side as that doesn't appear to be an issue to me the Court will be very Interested in the currently established routine and formalising it by way of Interim Orders. Making drastic changes to the current living arrangement wont be high on the agenda.

    At this hearing the court might Order a Family Report and if they do you will do your best to nail your interview and get a glowing recommendation. She will do her best to throw mud at you and get a poor recommendation.

    Don't let her poor behaviour and tantrums get to you and don't waste your money paying your lawyer to respond to dumb emails from her. Put your best self on display at the Interim hearing and the Registrar will see right through her.

    My comments come from my experience handling my own matter. I'm not a lawyer but I do have an extremely uncooperative Ex.

    Good Luck.
     
  5. sammy01

    sammy01 Well-Known Member

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    So step mum - you wrote something smart above
    You're right - that is nice - but who cares. So what you're right yay for you... Well intentioned sarcasm. I can not emphasise this enough. If you make your case about proving mum lied on this date and mum did this and that you are literally throwing the baby out with the path water.
    So you mentioned you're worried about them believing the lies. If you make the case about proving her lies are wrong - SHE WINS even if her lies are wrong. WHY? well you're showing that you're combative - She is showing she is combative. That is not a good situation for co-parenting.
    It is the law.
    The complex version
    Family Law Act 1975
    pg 204 - Section 65dAA
    The best bit? The simple bit is quoted below
    (c) the parents’ current and future capacity to communicate with each other and resolve difficulties that might arise in implementing an arrangement of that kind;
    That is the legislation - the law. So you prove you can communicate with her - that you can resolve difficulties that might arise. YOU WIN Or you spend your time worrying that they're gonna believe her lies and focus on being combative. Nowhere in the legislation does it say you win by proving she lied...

    I get you're worred they will believe her lies. Do you think these people are stupid? Do you think they get to hold the position of being a judge by chance? or by brains? Don't you think they know the decisions they make will impact on the life outcomes of these kids. Too bloody right and they take their job seriously.

    Im a teacher - every year I tell my year 12 students JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION in the exams. Every year.... And every year in exams they explain what happened in the novel. They have quotes and explain that this was a metaphor or that was symbolism... All very good. But they don't answer the question. Trust me I'm going somewhere here.

    You need to look at the legislation and ask yourselves are you addressing the legislation in a way that PROVES you guys are great parents? If you do that they you will win. OR are you PROVING she lied. Which form of PROOF is more important?

    Let her paint her picture. I'm betting her picture will be unreliable, inconsistent and full of BS. So since I'm feeling all metaphorical and English teacherish.... oops. The jugde is an art critic. He has to decide which painting he likes better. It is not your job to show the judge that the other painting is without style, ugly and done using finger painting..... your job is to paint a great picture and let him/her decide which one he likes....

    Your thread is full of she did this and she contradicted herself when and the avo was a lie. So what?

    So I'm giving you a gentle - and well intentioned kick in the butt. Now go find the nearest yoga place learn some breating exercise and hang with Budda and Yoda (I love when I can get starwars into my writing). You need to use the force and the force is the legislation. Use the legislation Luke... May the legislation be with you...
     
    #15 sammy01, 9 July 2019
    Last edited: 9 July 2019
  6. stepmum

    stepmum Well-Known Member

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    Hi Jake,
    Thanks for your advice will definitely take it on board. We have an appointment with Solicitor today to go through her proposed orders. Will keep you updated.

    Thanks again:)
     
  7. stepmum

    stepmum Well-Known Member

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    Hi Sammy,

    Thank you for the gentle kick in the butt it was needed. I did have a laugh at your inclusion of starwars. One day at a time is all we can do at the moment.
    I will stay positive and go and hang with Yoda:) "Once you start down the dark path, forever it will dominate your destiny."
    Appointment with Solicitor today to go through her proposed orders.
     
  8. stepmum

    stepmum Well-Known Member

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    Hi All,

    Just wanting to know how you deal with the constant harassment from the other parent. It has escalated since she found out we are getting married.
    We have a separate phone for her however if we don't respond to her in 5 minutes we cop abuse and comments of us not co parenting with her.
    Our solicitor tells us to respond pretty much as soon as we see a text from her. This is getting beyond a joke as we are getting 3-5 texts a day doesn't matter if we have children or she does. In the last 3 weeks we have had 2 days with no text.

    The contact between her and the children is bordering on obsessive. If they don't respond to her straight away she sends 4 plus messages until they answer her. We have advised our solicitor of all of this and all we get back is not much she can do. She has already been advised by her solicitor and a psychologist to back off to no avail.

    We have been told we cannot turn off the phone used for her to contact us when the kids are with us. We do not get any peace as she is texting our phone and both children's phones constantly and we are trying to have a nice weekend with them.

    We have mediation coming up at end of month. I'm not allowed in mediation as it has been advised to us that BM feels that I am taking over her role as a mother.

    Any advise would be appreciated.

    Thanks
     
  9. sammy01

    sammy01 Well-Known Member

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    Just outa interest, what is the nature of all these messages?
    Congratulations on getting engaged.
    Not much from here on in that you're gonna like... But it is well intentioned.

    A long long time a go in a galaxy far far away....
    Children played outside happily. On every other street corner was a public phone and everyone survived. MOBILE phones did not exist. Everyone was happy. The end.

    You are dealing with a nutter - Worse than Darth Vader... This force to too great for the legal system of this great nation to defend. The family court is useless against this evil. No court can make an order that stipulates that a fool must stop being a fool...
    So maybe - maybe the legal system could help... So you could seek a court order stipulating times for calls. Rules about text messaging. But she won't follow it and you're wasting your time and money going back to court to do a contravention because she texts too much.

    No legal advice from here on, just some life experience.
    Camomile tea time....
    YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.

    Story time.... I had a parenting plan at one point... I could call the kids on Tuesday and Thursday at 6pm. It never happened. I call at 5.59. No answer, then a message saying I had to ring at 6pm and it is past 6pm so don't bother. If I rang at 6pm she'd tell me they were in the bath, or some other BS... MADNESS. But I kept ringing every Tuesday and Thursday... It was a little game for her, a reminder that she was winning, she had all the power and control and it was pissing me of no end.

    Then I stopped. No call on Tuesday, nope not Thursday either... I got text messages accusing me of ignoring my kids. Didn't respond. Text messages telling me how bad it would look in court if I could not be bothered calling my own kids. blah blah blah. Then there were the text messages / emails all the other bs. It was sending me mad. She would email me a tirade of madness and then text message to tell me I had an hour to respond. BUT - I'm a work, like normal people, I can't just down tools to deal with crazy lady... But it was sending me insane. Chain smoking nail biting hair gone grey insane.

    So change your approach. See this is all about power and control. You have to break that cycle. Now this is a bit tougher when you've got kids with phones. See you wrote in your last post that you cop a barage of abuse if you don't reply in 5 minutes... U'm so what? why do you care? What does it matter?
    Seriously, I want you to answer those questions.

    See you need to get your head around the fact that it doesn't matter and you should not care if she accuses you of this or that. And until you learn that skill YOU ARE THE PROBLEM. You're gonna spend your whole life sh*t scared of the sound of mobile phones. You're like Pavlov's dogs in reverse. Everytime the phone rings you have a little panic attack. YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.

    What to do with kids? HHMM - 4 hours a day with no phones. Your house - your rules. The weather is getting warmer. Go camping, Have a back to nature, no phone weekend. Oh what fun... Have a strict - No phones on after 8pm rule. It is bad to be on a screen that close to bed time. Your house YOUR RULES.

    Final rant. The one liner... So the ex would email / text all sort of crap. The kids are allergic to dogs, I need to get rid of the dog. The kids clothes got ruined when they were at my house, I need to be more responsible. blah blah. For a long time I'd try and reason with her... Dear NUTTER, can you please provide me with a doctor's certificate that shows the kids have been diagnosed with an alergy to dogs?
    Her response? "How dare you question my authority as the mother of MY children. You owe me an apology"

    Then I started applying the one liner strategy... "ok, thanks for that. Please keep me updated"
    Most of the crap she was writing didn't need a response and any response I gave would be the wrong one. But, it isn't about the response. It is about power and control. I wasn't texting her and demanding SHE respond within an hour. s**t, I can't imagine ever having the courage to do that.... And while she had the power and control and I was letting her walk all over me. I was the problem....
    So Imagine a series of text messages
    HER - You didn't clean the kids clothes, my children are tired and grumpy because you let them stay up late. You really need to learn to be a better father.
    ME -ok, thanks for that. Please keep me updated.
    HER - What sort of answer is that. FFS take some responsibility.
    ME - ok, thanks for that. Please keep me updated.

    See, I was no longer buying into her crazy sh*t.... And it was pissing her off... I wasn't playing her game anymore. I had my own game and she hated it... I felt empowered and it felt good. Short version, you need to change the dynamics of the relationship and you need to be consistent with your approach, once you do that, you just might find the text messages don't come as much because you're response is no longer fueling her sense of power and control.
    I should write a book.
     
  10. Jake Matherson

    Jake Matherson Well-Known Member

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    I come for the advice.

    I stay for @sammy01 's Star Wars references.
     
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