VIC applying to vary intervention order

[sammy01]

Yeah - mate when I look back at my time and think about some of the stuff I told doctors, psychologists... If I was female they would have told me to go to the cops and get an avo. I'd like to think that would happen these days.

Well you know what sort of a beast you're fighting. Start reading up on borderline personalities. I'm not one to diagnose people I've never met. But family law often brings out the worst in people, so learning some protection strategies to help you cope. It has been years, but these days I really don't sweat all that much over my ex's antics.

I really think you should get going with the mediation and then court. You have a bit of spare time, so get learning and preparing your case. The longer you leave it the easier it is for the ex to establish that her owning (oops I mean being primary carer) of the kids is the new norm. So get cracking.

 

[Atticus]

I really think you should get going with the mediation and then court. You have a bit of spare time, so get learning and preparing your case. The longer you leave it the easier it is for the ex to establish that her owning (oops I mean being primary carer) of the kids is the new norm. So get cracking.

Agree with above 100% ....

Going just on what you have written so far, probably two ways this will work out regarding you seeing kids ...... You do everything she wants, when she wants, for as long as she wants at her convenience .... OR... you take the necessary steps to get her served with an initiating application for parenting orders (sooner the better).

Unfortunately that is the ONLY thing you can do to actually address the imbalance of power, compel an A hole to come to the table & have them face a few home truths (and possible consequences) at the hands of a court registrar.

 

[Jamie27]

Well you know what sort of a beast you're fighting. Start reading up on borderline personalities. I'm not one to diagnose people I've never met.

This is something I have suspected for a long time. Not just in regards to my current situation, but things like demanding thousands of dollars to go and record a studio album, and telling the girls she is going to become a famous songwriter/singer and go on tour around the world. She is neither, but does enjoy playing the piano. The girls when they were smaller were convinced they were going to go tour with their mum. The amount of anger I copped because I supposedly didn't support her alleged singing career was incredible. So many other examples but I don't want to bore anyone.

 

[Step2Three]

The letter from the lawyer also made claims about google searches conducted by me on April 9 and 16 about suicide and how to create carbon monoxide, gassing oneself etc. I was removed from the family home on April 3. The computer these searches were allegedly made on is in my daughter's room - the anorexic one who has self harmed twice that I know of - once by cutting herself, the other time taking heaps of paracetamol before vomiting it all up.

Leaving aside the obvious credibility problem of this claim with regards to yourself (which you've already pointed out), do you hold any concerns that those searches were genuinely made on the machine and dates specified, given your daughters history?
Since you cannot discuss the issue with the ex on account of the IVO, and if legitimate this is too urgent an issue to communicate through lawyers, are there other people/services you can engage with to check on your daughters mental wellbeing?

 

[Jamie27]

Leaving aside the obvious credibility problem of this claim with regards to yourself (which you've already pointed out), do you hold any concerns that those searches were genuinely made on the machine and dates specified, given your daughters history?
Since you cannot discuss the issue with the ex on account of the IVO, and if legitimate this is too urgent an issue to communicate through lawyers, are there other people/services you can engage with to check on your daughters mental wellbeing?

Yes - have done this. Cheers

 

[GlassHalfFull]

Late to this one, but I just wanted to add my two cents.. my ex got an IVO primarily based on a (twisted and falsely described) historical event from approximately a year prior. Ultimately you can just make up your reasons. Say it happened yesterday. Ultimately no proof is required to get one anyway, and it's only going to be questioned at a contested hearing, by which time it'll be 6-12 months later and you won't be penalised for essentially having made the whole thing up (especially when you can say it happened behind closed doors with no witnesses). Sorry, call me cynical. I'm not actually recommending doing that, but I assure you, it happens and there's nothing in the system to stop it being abused in that way.

 

[sammy01]

GLASSHALF FULL -Mate I have to disagree. This guy can't make stuff up. It is one thing when living together and that is because DV in family relationships does happen behind closed doors.

And I don't doubt that women are more prone to being the vicitims of DV - At least in the traditional sense of the word (which i reckon is the way most cops understand it) But that makes it a good bit harder for a bloke to get an avo against a partner, let alone an ex partner.
Hey Glass - whatdoyareckon - I worded that bit about there being a bit of gender inequality in avo land real delicately...

 

[GlassHalfFull]

But you're still thinking about it from an 'honest person' point of view. If he goes to the police says "she approached me yesterday and punched me in the face, she has a history of violent attacks on me and the children and I want to protect them", the police are likely going to take it seriously regardless of whether there's proof it happened. Again, I'm not condoning or encouraging lies. I'm just saying it's perfectly doable because there's no accountability for false DV allegations.

 

[sammy01]

Yes thre is - Especially when they're not living together... DV in the home behind closed doors happens. Hence the ease with which they're handed out and HENCE why an avo has lost currency in family law. Personally, I was stunned when I got my hands on my ex's avo statement (got lucky - she left it in some paperwork she returned so I could do my taxes) Anyways, no dates, no hard details, no accusations of physcial violence. All of what she alleges apparantly happened in the home and she was to scared to call the cops.

But this guy doesn't live with her. It isn't a matter of escaping crazy land. Sadly, my trips to doctors, psychologists etc 10 years ago went no-where because at the time they no one accepted that blokes could be victims too. Based on what he's written he probably could have gotten an avo on her a few yrs back. She sounds like a right nutter. But when two people don't live together the cops are not as interested in claims of dv without some decent proof. Punch in faces scenario= assault, not just avo. Cops will investigate...

Next - The most important reason why an avo against her is a bad idea... She is a nutter. She is from a planet called ME ME ME ME ME... So Jamie is patiently waiting for his 80 or so days to run out before considering what next because the avo will expire. NUTTERS are different. They are dangerous. Story time - So my nutter invited me for a coffee after the avo ended. We were still negotiating assets and kids. Mediation failed, she had lost her legal aid grant (I'll leave you to ponder why - but I have a good idea) I sat down for the coffee. i said it would be nice to work together, get this sorted, move on.... She stared me down and told me word for word... "don't fcuk with me or you'll never see the kids again". I took that to the cops. NOPE nothing. But with hindsight - good. WHY? well if it had've gone all the way through family court then it would have been he has an avo on her, she has an avo in him. He said this, she said that. It would have gotten messy and cost more in family court. So yes GLASS it is doable... BUT it isn't good strategy for Jamie, especially not at this point in time.

Hypothetically - Jamie gets an avo on the NUTTER. Hmm. The 80 days of his AVO expire. Guess what Jamie. You now can't go to the house she is living in because to do so would make you look stupid. Why did you go and get an avo out against someone and then go to where they live? do you need protecting or not? AND at this point in time she does live there. That is where she slept last night and he doesn't live there.

Madness - but that is the law.

 

[Step2Three]

Sammy- I think in this day and age whether alleged family violence occurs whether living together or not is not having a huge influence on granting of AVO/IVO/FVRO (whichever the state in question is)- perhaps more so if the police are involved, but not in a private application. This goes to the evolving definition of family violence which of course extends far beyond punching someone to pretty much any act that makes the applicant feel bad.
My own experience is in WA, however from comments on here it appears VIC is equally liberal in making these orders, if not more so. In my husbands' case, he and the nutter had been separated ~ 2.5 years, contact with nutter had been reduced significantly by moving pickup/drop off to school where possible (after her verbal abuse kicked off when he re- partnered), had done a round of mediation to make a firmer parenting plan (time with kids had dropped off after re-partnering... spot the pattern) with no allegations of family violence at any point along the line. She renegs on the plan, he applies to Family Court, and the day before initial FC hearing, she's fronted magistrates court, made a FVRO application, had an ex-parte hearing and been granted an interim order.
What did she say to get the order granted?
"he will come to my house [to pick up kids] and he will just say something really mean"
"he says I have to have them ready on time when he picks them up"
This constitutes being intimidating, a bully and controlling (apparently). The bar is so low it is basically on the floor. Inconsistent testimony is not a problem- that's just proof of how scared you are. Just noticed a gem in the transcript where one of her complaints against him is that he was "threatening to get his lawyer involved when I try and tell him what to do". (hang on, thought that was what HE was accused of doing). Lies? They can only be brought to light if the respondent has the financial and emotional reserve to front up for an objection hearing in 7 months time. If they get that far, proving or disproving what was said in a Macca's parking lot 6 months ago? Impossible, but on the balance of probabilities, it's quite possible someone called their ex a d*ckhead, so she must be telling the truth.

Would a bloke get the same result? On the letter of the law, yes, in reality I'm less sure. Probably depends on the magistrate.
All that said, I still wouldn't condone making an application unless such an order were necessary to prevent ongoing family violence. And if going ahead with one, be upfront about what communication/interaction would still be required for co-parenting, so that the magistrate can make appropriate accommodations in the order.