QLD Ownership of Goods sold at Police Auction

[brisbane_bob]

Hi, I recently purchased an item at a police auction in QLD, following receiving the goods I was looking to sell these goods as I had purchased them at a substantial discount. Long story short, the original owner has seen the advertisement and reported it to the police who subsequently served a warrant saying the items are stolen and seized them as stolen goods, even though I had the invoice for goods and had purchased them for QLD police.

QLD Police have offered me a refund for the original purchase price, but the value of the item is over $10k more. QLD Police have said they completed the check and were lawfully allowed to sell the item, but are saying that the owner never ceded ownership so it has to go back to them, and basically bad luck be happy your getting your money back.

I am arguing that as the item was surrendered to the state (they agree they had the right to sell it) and I legally purchased it I am entitled to the item or fair remuneration. Before I engage a lawyer, do I have an argument for a return of goods or reimbursement?

Thanks

 

[Tim W]

Hard to say for certain without knowing all the facts and backs tory, but...

--> You are likely entitled to get back the money that you paid.
--> What you are not entitled to any extra because of capital gain that didn't happen.
--> Nor can you recover from the Queensland Police any expenses that you incurred post-purchase
(such as if you spend money getting a car back to roadworthy condition)

--> You may be able to negotiate a better deal.
But you are not entitled to more money that you paid.

 

[Rod]

You may have claim to the goods back. I'm not in QLD so do not know the specific laws in QLD regarding police selling unclaimed goods. Been some years since I checked Vic laws but last time I did I seem to remember the police here sell goods with a clear title at auctions.

You will likely have to go to court though as the police will not care they have made a mistake.

So either:
1. Go to court (use a lawyer to check title laws first); or
2. accept your money back.

Edit: Have your lawyer check POLICE POWERS AND RESPONSIBILITIES ACT 2000 - SECT 721 - Dealing with forfeited things.

(1) On the forfeiture of a thing to the State, the thing becomes the property of the State and may, subject to any direction given under the Police Service Administration Act 1990 , section 4 . 6, be dealt with by the commissioner as the commissioner considers appropriate.​

I do not know if your item is deemed to be forfeited under this section.

I have recently dealt with a lawyer in QLD who I found to be reasonable to deal with, though not necessarily cheap. Contact me if you want their details.

 

[Rod]

You may have claim to the goods back.

* You may have a claim to have the goods returned.

 

[brisbane_bob]

Hard to say for certain without knowing all the facts and backs tory, but...

--> You are likely entitled to g

- Goods were stolen recovered goods
- Police did all the checks and advertisements for it to become the property of the state before sale to me
- I met with the "original owner" as he posed as a prospective buyer, and provided him with all my details honestly, which he subsequently supplied to the police (without my knowledge)
- Police then presented at my house with a warrant for knowingly being in possession of tainted goods. (Which is obviously incorrect as I purchased the items off QLD Police)
- I provided them with my receipt during the search upon when they seized the item
- The following discussion with police, they have disputed my ownership, QLD Police have stated they conducted all the relevant checks and advertisements for forfeiture and sale of the property by the state, and had the legal right to sell the item.
- QLD Police proposed a refund, I aired my opinion that I legally purchased the item from them, and as such disputed ownership, so either want the item back, or fair value.
- Following an internal process they have comeback and said you get a refund and basically be happy you are getting that.
- This proposal is in the form of a letter of indemnity, which I have not received yet

I believe my next steps are
- Present a letter to the property office for the return of goods
- If this is declined, the next step would be an application to a magistrate

 

[Rod]

And do it quickly before the item is returned to the original owner.

The letter should also put the police on notice not to give away your property.

 

[Rod]

following discussion with police, they have disputed my ownership

The average copper won't know the law pertaining to your circumstances. They are instead applying a 'what's fair test'.

And I do have some sympathy to the original owner. The police may have stuffed up not returning the item before the auction and might be trying to placate the original owner.

 

[Tim W]

I'm not sure that placating is the intent here.
Perhaps, covering their mistake is more likely.
If the goods were stolen, then at no time did title in them
pass from the lawful owner (the victim of the theft) to anyone else.
In lay language - they still belong, and always have,
to the person they were originally stolen from.

As a matter of law, the item(s) were never the police's to sell.
Which in turn means that they have never been yours, either.
Which means that any capital gain you might have made
by "buying" it at a below-market price, and then (maybe) selling it again,
is not a compensable loss.

That's because...
(i) Your auction purchase is void from the get-go.
(ii) Any capital gain (which didn't happen, but which, you claim, could have)
doesn't exist, and couldn't ever exist to your benefit.

--> You can get your money back.
--> Don't forget to claim back all of what you paid. That might include things like
buyer's premiums, commissions, and GST.

 

[Rod]

As a matter of law, the item(s) were never the police's to sell.

Various State Governments have modified the common law so the police claim title in the stolen property. See my first post on this thread.

 

[Tim W]

-Police did all the checks and advertisements for it to become the property of the state before sale to me

Well, the would say that, wouldn't they?