NSW Likelihood of Getting Relocation Request Approved?

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Alchemy

Well-Known Member
14 January 2018
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The younger children start school this year. I’ve been told once they’ve started school and settled the courts won’t allow relocation?

My eldest son starts high school in 2020. I’d like to move before this. So younger kids at school at x place for a couple of years. Or less if approved before then.

Any suggestions?
 

AllForHer

Well-Known Member
23 July 2014
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Relocation cases are difficult to predict, even in what seems like the most obvious of circumstances, so I'm not going to speculate on what the Court might decide, but the general rule is that if there's no parenting orders, there's no rules that stop you from relocating. Certainly, if you do it without dad's consent, that can cause other problems such as recovery orders being filed, so it's best to get dad's consent first.

Contact Legal Aid or Relationships Australia to organise mediation. If he doesn't participate, then I'd probably consider relocating and letting dad pursue parenting orders, but if he does participate and is opposed, then it might be necessary to go to Court.

Basically, what I've observed of relocation cases is that the Court is more likely to facilitate a relocation application if the applicant parent is likely to facilitate the relationship between the kids and the parent they would be leaving behind, regardless of the distance.

From what you've said so far, I think there are some issues in your approach to the father that would be better addressed now so that, if it does end up going to Court, the father can't make the case the you don't support or encourage the kids' relationship with him and therefore the relocation shouldn't be allowed.

First, even though you're willing to facilitate some limited contact if you relocate, the fact that you are not willing to communicate with dad about major long-term decisions affecting the kids is a problem. Unless you have a Court order stating otherwise, you and dad share equally in parental responsibility, meaning you have an obligation to consult with dad about all major long-term decisions affecting his kids.

Education is very clearly listed in the Family Law Act as one of the major long-term decisions governed by parental responsibility, yet you didn't communicate about which school his children would be attending (but go on to complain that he wouldn't assist with school fees? Come on, now...).

My question is, since you'll be living further away, what other major long-term decisions will you feel yourself at liberty to make without his input? What else won't you communicate about in regards to his kids? Will you discuss counselling options if one of the kids shows signs of a serious personality disorder? Will you advise dad which hospital your kid is attending for surgery after an accident? Or will you only want his input if it's in the form of money?

If you don't think dad is significant enough to talk about school choices with when living in the same area, then why would the Court believe that you consider him significant enough to ensure the kids receive the support and encouragement they need to maintain a relationship with him over distance?

Support and encouragement of the relationship between children and their non-resident parent is crucial in parenting matters, such that it can single-handedly dictate what the Court decides in terms of who the children live with. It doesn't sound like your lack of support and encouragement is maliciously intended, but the passive nature in which you let two five-year-olds decide how long they spend with their dad is somewhat telling - they think candy is an acceptable breakfast choice, so not exactly capable of acting in their own best interests, yet at the moment, you let them decide how long their dad gets to parent them.

Do you plan on letting them stay home every time they say they don't want to go to school? Why is being parented any different? What happens if you relocate and they say they don't want to see dad over the holidays? Are you going to tell dad they don't want to see him, or are you going to do the parent thing and say 'Well, sorry, kids, but that's mine and your father's choice to make, not yours' and send them on their merry way?

On top of that, it's very difficult to reconcile the notion that the father has been inconsistent in their lives, yet now that he's seeing the kids consistently every fortnight for what I understand is meant to be an overnight (but isn't because the kids are currently deciding their own care schedule), you want to make him inconsistent again by moving the kids 4.5 hours away and relegating him to half holidays that may or may not even happen, conditional on the kids approving their time with their own parent.

I also think you're offering an unnecessarily limited amount of time for the kids to spend with their dad off the back of seeing him every second Wednesday. Half holidays is appropriate for parents living flight-distance apart, but a driving distance of 4.5 hours can comfortably enable at least two weekends a term and half holidays.
 

Alchemy

Well-Known Member
14 January 2018
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121
All for her - thanks for your response. All taken into consideration.

It’s a hard situation, isn’t it? He hadn’t seen them for 8 months so I can understand that they’re not comfortable staying. I’ve been encouraging them to stay. It’s only early days and I’ve said we should get the overnights sorted before we move.

I’ve suggested he visit at y place once (where we’d like to relocate) and we return once to x place (where we all live currently) during the school term as well as half the holidays. Alternate Easter’s and Xmas too. FaceTime during the week.
 

AllForHer

Well-Known Member
23 July 2014
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Okay, with the overnights at the moment, look at it this way: what if they do go to dad's for the holidays, then say they don't want to stay over at your place anymore? What support would you expect from dad? That he tells them that's okay, they don't have to go back to your place? Or do you expect him to not give them a choice about the matter?

You need to start enforcing overnights with the kids and stop giving them a choice in the matter based on their own assessment of comfort. Familiarity is comfort to kids of that age - that's why my seven-year-old stepdaughter is quite happy to watch Frozen seventeen times in a row instead of going to the movies to watch Moana on release.

And yet, once I actually do get her to the movies, guess what she wants to watch seventeen times in a row from then on? Moana.

See, familiar and comfortable doesn't become familiar and comfortable until someone breaks old habits, and this is what you need to do with overnights. Dad's house will never become familiar and comfortable while ever you are giving the kids the option of familiar and comfortable at your house. Put your foot down. They're five years of age, they'll cope, and sleeping over at dad's house once a fortnight isn't going to ruin their lives, but it might help you make the case a lot better for relocation.
 

Lennon

Well-Known Member
11 September 2014
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I find it hard to understand why you are not prepared to support overnight stays while you and dad are living near each other, but you are apparently prepared to agree to extended stays after you relocate. If extended stays are okay after you relocate, why are you not agreeing to overnights now?

5 year old children should not be determining their own care arrangements. You and their dad are responsible for arranging their care (or the courts if the two of you cannot agree).

The court will not look favourably on you if you ask for relocation orders that provide for the children to spend holidays with dad in circumstances where you have not even been agreeing to single overnights now. There is a clear inconsistency in your position there which makes it look like you are not supportive of the children's relationship with their father.

I wouldn't suggest to the court that you should be allowed to move for spiritual reasons. The court cares about the welfare of the children so the things to focus on would be your financial circumstances, employment opportunities, housing, the social support in each location etc.

And I agree with PP's that issues such as not discussing school costs or medical costs are irrelevant. If you think your ex should contribute to those costs then seek a change of assessment through the CSA.
 

Alchemy

Well-Known Member
14 January 2018
26
0
121
Allforher - thanks your suggestions have been taken on board :)

Lennon - their father stopped seeing them for 8 months and now wants every second Wednesday evening. I’ve said yes. Just taking it slow at the moment with overnights. It will happen. All help appreciated, thanks
 

Malissla

Well-Known Member
24 April 2018
135
2
389
I was in this situation.. I relocated.. I didn't ask anyone anything.. yes he then applied to the court but what can the court do ? Find you another house in the same area you moved away from and pay for it ? Order you to? They can't order you to find a house if there isn't any available, and they can't make you pay for it of you don't have the money.
 

sammy01

Well-Known Member
27 September 2015
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So was I this situation too Francis..... Kinda.. My ex told me she wanted to move. Asked for me to agree... I said no. She sought legal opinion and realised that moving without my consent could have ended badly... In my case she chose to move. But left the kids with me...

What can the courts do?
Tell you to return AND if you choose not to then they can order you to hand the kids over to the other parent. IT DOES HAPPEN.
IF you don't?
Impose a fine and order you to follow their orders...
If you don't pay the fine they can refuse to register your car (I believe) and refuse to let you renew your driver's licence... And if you continue to refuse...
JAIL. It does happen.
OR make an order that you are restrained from approaching the child - again , failure to comply can result in jail time. Here is a case that proves I'm not making this stuff up.
Fenuel & Graham [2008] FamCA 386 (22 April 2008) jail ;mask_path=au/cases/cth/FamCA


Here is a case where the mother refused to let the dad see his kid. She was put on a good behaviour bond... IF she failed to follow the instruction of the bond jail would be likely.
Fielding & Doull (No 2) [2016] FamCA 488 (17 June 2016) jail;mask_path=au/cases/cth/FamCA

Francis - you have not given much detail but based on what you've written and only based on that let me tell you something. YOU hare appalling...

Just wondering... IF dad came and picked up the kids and took them to his place and refused to hand the kids back to you... How would you go with that?
Yep thought so, you'd want the courts to do something..
APPALLING....
 

Malissla

Well-Known Member
24 April 2018
135
2
389
So was I this situation too Francis..... Kinda.. My ex told me she wanted to move. Asked for me to agree... I said no. She sought legal opinion and realised that moving without my consent could have ended badly... In my case she chose to move. But left the kids with me...

What can the courts do?
Tell you to return AND if you choose not to then they can order you to hand the kids over to the other parent. IT DOES HAPPEN.
IF you don't?
Impose a fine and order you to follow their orders...
If you don't pay the fine they can refuse to register your car (I believe) and refuse to let you renew your driver's licence... And if you continue to refuse...
JAIL. It does happen.
OR make an order that you are restrained from approaching the child - again , failure to comply can result in jail time. Here is a case that proves I'm not making this stuff up.
Fenuel & Graham [2008] FamCA 386 (22 April 2008) jail ;mask_path=au/cases/cth/FamCA


Here is a case where the mother refused to let the dad see his kid. She was put on a good behaviour bond... IF she failed to follow the instruction of the bond jail would be likely.
Fielding & Doull (No 2) [2016] FamCA 488 (17 June 2016) jail;mask_path=au/cases/cth/FamCA

Francis - you have not given much detail but based on what you've written and only based on that let me tell you something. YOU hare appalling...

Just wondering... IF dad came and picked up the kids and took them to his place and refused to hand the kids back to you... How would you go with that?
Yep thought so, you'd want the courts to do something..
APPALLING....

Left the kids with you so she could move away from you ? And you took the kids rather than let them stay with their mother?
 

Malissla

Well-Known Member
24 April 2018
135
2
389
So was I this situation too Francis..... Kinda.. My ex told me she wanted to move. Asked for me to agree... I said no. She sought legal opinion and realised that moving without my consent could have ended badly... In my case she chose to move. But left the kids with me...

What can the courts do?
Tell you to return AND if you choose not to then they can order you to hand the kids over to the other parent. IT DOES HAPPEN.
IF you don't?
Impose a fine and order you to follow their orders...
If you don't pay the fine they can refuse to register your car (I believe) and refuse to let you renew your driver's licence... And if you continue to refuse...
JAIL. It does happen.
OR make an order that you are restrained from approaching the child - again , failure to comply can result in jail time. Here is a case that proves I'm not making this stuff up.
Fenuel & Graham [2008] FamCA 386 (22 April 2008) jail ;mask_path=au/cases/cth/FamCA


Here is a case where the mother refused to let the dad see his kid. She was put on a good behaviour bond... IF she failed to follow the instruction of the bond jail would be likely.
Fielding & Doull (No 2) [2016] FamCA 488 (17 June 2016) jail;mask_path=au/cases/cth/FamCA

Francis - you have not given much detail but based on what you've written and only based on that let me tell you something. YOU hare appalling...

Just wondering... IF dad came and picked up the kids and took them to his place and refused to hand the kids back to you... How would you go with that?
Yep thought so, you'd want the courts to do something..
APPALLING....

The Court operates a FEAR system is that right? Ah, agree to return then.. but finding another property in the same area, Oh that can be soooooo difficult and especially if you don't have the money, do you believe the court can order you to have enough money, well there's an interesting concept.. i think you'll find the first time you get a warning :) If the dad came and took the kids I'd wholly depend upon the lovely law courts to give me beautiful orders that the kids be returned to me and I'd get them...but making an order forcing someone to move back to an area where there is no rental properties available.. well that's an entirely different matter.. ordering someone to have enough money to do that .. well.. now that's impossible.. isn't it ? Yes, I am appallingly anti- conformist .. image that in 2018 !! o_O Oh I was lucky I had Child Protection Services advising me to move to an undisclosed location.. not that anyone else knew that ;)