VIC IVO

[Atticus]

While he was on the phone with them he gave them a mobile number to send him a code and it was his mobile number of more than 10 years. A bit strange if someone had his mobile at that particular moment

Put it this way... If your lawyer says ( lawyers can be wrong BTW... still get paid but) you have a 'chance', then personally I wouldn't be pursuing the " he tried to make me breach therefore he is not afraid of me" line as you are proposing....
a) because it proves nothing of the sort .... it's just your opinion
b) Your opinion/assumptions doesn't matter

Rather, if your lawyer thinks that there is sufficient evidence that the IVO is not warranted, I would be pursuing the vexatious line.

 

[SamaraSam]

Put it this way... If your lawyer says ( lawyers can be wrong BTW... still get paid but) you have a 'chance', then personally I wouldn't be pursuing the " he tried to make me breach therefore he is not afraid of me" line as you are proposing....
a) because it proves nothing of the sort .... it's just your opinion
b) Your opinion/assumptions doesn't matter

Rather, if your lawyer thinks that there is sufficient evidence that the IVO is not warranted, I would be pursuing the vexatious line.

 

[SamaraSam]

Any judge that hears all the lies and fraud and still hands the IVO is just allowing a vindictive and spiteful person to do more of that

 

[Atticus]

Wish you luck .... Bear in mind this is a police application so you (or lawyer) will be facing a police prosecutor not the applicant..... You can't claim fraud has occurred as a fact because the police have declared no crime committed, so it's only an allegation.

Unfortunately lies are common in IVO applications, as I said, it only requires that a magistrate is satisfied (on balance of probabilities) that the applicant holds some fear, or has been stalked or intimidated. ..... Keep in mind also that if you do have the interim IVO made final, any alleged breach must past a higher test (beyond reasonable doubt) before you would be convicted of a breach.

 

[SamaraSam]

Wish you luck .... Bear in mind this is a police application so you (or lawyer) will be facing a police prosecutor not the applicant..... You can't claim fraud has occurred as a fact because the police have declared no crime committed, so it's only an allegation.

Unfortunately lies are common in IVO applications, as I said, it only requires that a magistrate is satisfied (on balance of probabilities) that the applicant holds some fear, or has been stalked or intimidated. ..... Keep in mind also that if you do have the interim IVO made final, any alleged breach must past a higher test (beyond reasonable doubt) before you would be convicted of a breach.

 

[SamaraSam]

The fraud won’t be used as a defence. I will ask my lawyer to ask him on the witness stand why he waited until he applied for the IVO to do that? Why not do it the previous months? Did he think there would be a chance I would react and come knocking on the door etc? Was that what he wanted? I understand I’m up against a police prosecutor but I’m interested to know if police will still argue he’s living in fear when he went out of his way to impersonate a dying man. Anyone can say they are scared. But this is why a lawyer cross examines. That is the whole point of cross examination. When he’s being cross examined under oath what excuse will he use for impersonating? It will be a bit hard for him to claim to be scared when he was plotting and planning behind the scenes

 

[Atticus]

I understand I’m up against a police prosecutor but I’m interested to know if police will still argue he’s living in fear when he went out of his way to impersonate a dying man.

Yes they will.... That's their job, ie, to win.. Impersonating is just an allegation.. the cops you reported it to weren't convinced & I doubt he will admit it... Sure you may sow some level of doubt in the mind of the mag. Will it be enough? who knows .... Will it cost you a bomb?

Only going to be one winner in this scenario IMO, your lawyer

 

[SamaraSam]

So I need concrete evidence of the impersonating? Something that proves beyond doubt he did it?

 

[Atticus]

So I need concrete evidence of the impersonating? Something that proves beyond doubt he did it?

As I said in an earlier post, even if you were able to prove he did it & thereby cast doubt on his reliability, it still does not address the substance of THIS application, ie, are there any grounds to allow an IVO... proving he did this or did that or that he's a liar & a scoundrel means nothing in these hearings ...... It's only about whether the magistrate is satisfied that there is enough grounds, animosity, history or whatever to justify a protection order .... add to that this is an application by police on his behalf, that makes it even more difficult to defend...

Look .... I get how emotional & infuriating these things can be when they are based on lies, (personal experience & countless examples over years) & how they erode any faith in a system that is supposed to be just & equitable, but unless the IVO is actually going to interfere with your life in some meaningful way, it's just much better to accept the things without admission, have nothing to do with the PINOP & move on..

I mentioned earlier that I would be opposing it by claiming it's vexatious (which would have given you grounds to seek costs if successful) rather than by trying to show why there are no grounds to fear, but I have since noticed that it's a police application so that avenue is going to be impossible as well...

All you can do is tell your story, prosecutor will put their reasons for the application, & the magistrate will decide .... If you think you need a lawyer to do that so be it but you can defend it yourself .... If it's a line ball decision, showing that an IVO will ACUALLY affect your work or have some other serious unintended consequence may get a decision in your favour..

 

[SamaraSam]

If he’s falsely accused me of breaching once he will do it again. If he’s capable of creating a fake email in my dads name then he’s capable of creating one in my name and sending himself emails and saying they are from me.