WA Interpreting Orders- Stalemate

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Step2Three

Well-Known Member
21 December 2018
45
12
154
Good morning brains trust, seeking some thoughts on the situation below.

Orders have been in place for care of children (now 10 and 12) since October 2018, however there continues to be high conflict between parents, and there are often attempts to "imaginatively" interpret the orders to decrease father's time with the children. We're stuck in another one of these situations with Easter approaching. The clauses relevant to the discussion are the ones relating to school holiday time, and then specifically Easter (edited to the relevant parts only):
  • "... parties spend time with the children during school holidays as follows: ... the father spend time with the children from Friday 8:30am or conclusion of school to Tuesday 8:30am or commencement of school and this continues through the school and Christmas holiday period thereafter very 2 weeks, save and except for the other Orders in relation to school and Christmas holidays."
  • "For Easter 2020 and every alternate year thereafter there mother will spend time from after school Easter Thursday to 5pm Easter Saturday and then with the father from 5pm Easter Saturday to 5pm Easter Monday."
The other party is claiming that the order relating to holidays "entitles" (her words) her to 10 days of holiday time with the children, that the Easter arrangements do not apply if Easter occurs during school holidays and if he wants to see the kids for Easter, he has to give up other holiday time.
I think the intent of the orders is clear, that the Easter provision sits over regular care arrangements, in the same way that Mothers and Fathers Day do, without triggering a need to 'make up' time elsewhere. I believe that is supported by a further clause which specifically suspended the father's time at Easter in 2019 (as the mother was planning a holiday when the orders were made), when Easter also fell in the middle of school holidays. Surely if the mother's interpretation were correct, the clause suspending the father's time wouldn't be necessary?

The father creates a calendar at the start of each year incorporating all of the orders (school time, holiday time, special occasions) and sends it to the mother in the hope that these situations can get dealt with early but of course it gets ignored until she looks at it a week out from holidays and starts arguing. Several emails have been exchanged now with no progress on the issue.
Getting involved with lawyers and/or contraventions etc seems excessive over a couple of days at Easter but in this relationship with a very controlling, high conflict person maintaining boundaries is also important. She may be emboldened to push more boundaries at the moment after recent issues with the father's eldest daughter (not related to this mother).
You cant stop nutters being nutters, as is often said on this forum. I personally think we've exhausted anything being achieved by email exchange but unsure what to do next. Thoughts?
 

sammy01

Well-Known Member
27 September 2015
5,154
721
2,894
You can't stop nutters being nutters....
Solution? Not legal advice. Harness your inner Buddah.
But - Make the point. Dear ex, everytime you apply your version of the orders you interpret them in a way that minimises my time with the kids. Given you have more time with the kids in total, would it kills you to find opportunities for the kids to have just a little bit more time with me?

Look, I reckon it is a good idea to do the schedule at the start of the year. She won't. Probably cant, it requires yr 8 math skills. Too hard for her...

For what it is worth. When i realised she was always gonna pull these kinds of stunts and she could always win - I lost the will to fight, other than to note that clearly her objective is to find ways to interpret the orders in a time that minimises my time. It suxs. But guess what, she slowly kinda released the grip a little.

Life lesson. If you cant sort it in 1-2 emails, you're not gonna sort it with 3-4 or 5-6 or 20-30 emails. All it will do is drain your will to live. Fcuking nutters.
 

Dpj

Well-Known Member
1 July 2020
147
7
414
That first clause is terribly written

The second one is clear as day. I totally hear you when you talk about boundaries. If the conflict parent has cluster B traits (narcissism, borderline) then you MUST set boundaries. I had sessions with a speciliaist in the USA in high conflict divorce specialising in Cluster B - he was a straight shooter and his primary training was Child development and therapy. He became a gun in Cluster B divorces as so many kids that presented to him with issues had a cluster B parent.

In Australia most lawyers, etc, have no clue. Every time the father gives an inch, the mother will take it and then readajust the boundaries. You actually have to fight to ensure she understands she can't get away with that BS. Not only would I go to court, I would request make up time from previous years. Ensure she understands that the father won't take BS anymore. Just go in and self represent.

As Sammy said though, you need to be in the right frame of mind. Does that father have the mindset to fight. To totally distance his life/emotions from court matters? I have come to realise that i will use the law/police/etc to ensure no BS from the ex, and that I have a strong enough mind to not let that affect my daily life, including my relationship with the Mother. I never mention a thing to her (unless required by law/judges - ie, advising if XZY is not fixed then I will seek a court hearing to determine it). I can say for sure that once I started to play hard (police/law), she backed off massively, she stopped doing BS, testing and crossing boundaries, breaching orders, etc, as she knew there were consequences and I would seek consequences even if she put her toes across that line. But I was never confrontational with her - confrontation is their fuel.

There is a guy on youtube who is an inspiration and was to me in regards to understanding high conflict situations, attitudes of judges and how to keep going and going until you are the winner. He can be found here - https://www.youtube.com/c/TheProperPerson

Good luck
 
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