NSW Debt Recovery Chasing Me for Corporate Credit Card Transactions?

[Rostos]

Sure, but there was no reason to revoke it.

I tell you what this is like...

Suppose you have a Credit debt outstanding. Suppose you legally obtain the funds from a 3rd party with full authorization from that party.

Suppose you make the payment electronically and the payment goes through, you receive confirmation from the Credit Card company that the funds have been received.

Suppose the clerk when they were allocating the funds from say from a trust account into your account number, press a wrong button and say the money goes to another account at another bank (just a real big mistake).

Suppose this mistake was only noticed a long time afterwards and the CC company cannot get this money back..

Then they go and chase you for there own stuff up. Hey, the CC is in your name, you are liable, we know you made the payment but the payment has been lost,, even though it is our fault, we need that money again.

This is exactly what it is like. Again, they received a charge back request, they did not investigate the matter properly, or they did not investigate it at all (there stuff up) and they are chasing me for it AGAIN?

When i worked in the company, I would investigate chargeback requests. I would call the customer and ask them why they did this? If there was no valid reason, then i would tell the bank to reject the request. Just because you raise a request it does not mean you are right.

Chargebacks give you time so can investigate the matter because of the ramifications.

No one was contacted.

PS, I was supposed to have the FOS meeting this morning and AMEX cancelled it again. This is twice they have cancelled it.

 

[DMQC]

Rostos, I appreciate your point of view, however I am not sure why you asked a question on here if you already had all of the answers.

The situation is nothing like what you have explained since the account holder (the company) who made the payment to AMEX is the same account holder (again, the company) who requested the chargeback. In the "real" situation the funds went from the Company, to AMEX, back to the Company as I understand it. In your example, the funds went from the company, to AMEX and remained with AMEX, albeit not credited to the correct account.

You asked for an opinion and you got one from two qualified lawyers. I don't really have anything extra to add to this thread, so I wish you all the best with your dispute and hope it is resolved in your favour.

 

[Rostos]

Cheers, will keep you posted.

 

[Rostos]

Ok, just had the conference call.

The central crux to this whole matter is an unauthorised payment made to AMEX.

AMEX are claiming that I called and made the payment to them after I resigned from the company and because I was no longer employed I was not authorised to use that bank payment.

This is complete BS. I did not call AMEX and make the payment. It was another director who was still a director and authorised to use the account, etc. at the time who made the payment. I did not even know the company BSB and account number so it is impossible for me to make that payment.

Anyways, AMEX are going to go and retrieve the phone call. This is the reason why it was reversed.

Again, it was not me.

 

[Rostos]

Essentially AMEX have accused me of theft.

Do i have grounds to sue them?

 

[DMQC]

Hi Rostos,

Glad you have managed to establish the specifics of the issue. Was the other director authorised to use the account to pay the AMEX account for which you and the Company were liable? I apprecaite you said the Director was authorised to use the account, but wanted to confirm if this was for transactions such as that which is at issue.

In relation to bringing an action against AMEX, I presume you mean for defamation? I will wait for your to confirm before I elaborate on what is required to bring an action in defamation. Also, if it is for defamation please advise:

1. How AMEX came to the conclusion you were not authorised to use the account.

2. If AMEX have disclosed the details of this issue to any third party, such as other directors etc.

Regards

DM

 

[Rostos]

Thanks for the response DM

Yes, the director was authorized to use the bank account. Do you mean was he authorized to used the account to pay off AMEX transactions? Yes he was.

1. I am not sure, they just simply claimed that it was me who made the payment.

2. I am not sure.

 

[DMQC]

No problem Rostos.

Well, with defamation generally, you need to be able to satisfy three elements:

1. The matter needs to be defamatory - that is fairly self-explanatory and in this case, a false accusation of theft would likely be considered defamatory.
2. The defamatory matter needs to identify the person - In this case, all that needs to be said is ""Rostos used the bank account".
3. The matter needs to be published - this is the tricky one in this case in that, unless it was said to another person, you cannot bring in action for defamation. If they told, for example, other directors of the Company etc. then you may have a chance, typically though it needs to be published to the public at large.

AMEX have many defences, such as innocent dissemination, honest opinion (I think that is what it is called, it has been many years since I looked up the law) and other defences..

Hope that helps

DM

 

[Rostos]

Thanks DM

 

[Rostos]

Ok, i will give you an update
First of all, i will say this, we as humans all make mistakes. This all happened a year ago.
Basically, when i had left, i called the director to pay the balance O/S. The director asked me to make the payment by calling AMEX and asking them to DD the amount.
The operator at AMEX asked me if i authorised to use the bank account. I said i had left the company a little while ago and i was not.
About a minute later, the operator asked me again, and i said i was still technically a director because at the time of calling, while i submitted the form to resign as a director, it had not been processed as of yet by ASIC.
However, ASIC had back dated it or put the date down from when i sent it.
Anyways, it seems that the other director who had reversed the transaction is being opportunistic.

I am now going to go down this path and i would like your opinions.
The payment was reversed because i was not authorised to use the bank account as i was not a director at the time, even though one of the directors asked me to make the payment.
It has come to attention that I was the ONLY one authorised to use the credit card even though it was in my name AND the company name. I could only make transactions on it/sign off on payments made on the card.
It has essentially come down to this. The debt is approx $12.5k. Out of that $12.5k, about $11k of those transactions were made where i did not specifically make that payment.
Let me explain.
So for example, the director (the one who reversed the payment), took my card and used it over the phone/internet when opening an account with the courier company. The courier company would then direct debit the card whenever they sent a parcel for us.
This account was set up over the internet. It does not ask if the person setting up this account is authorised to use the credit card they are putting down.
My name is not on the account with this parcel company.
I have spoken to the Ombudsman about REVERSING these transactions.

Now, you might ask, did the person/director ask you if he can use this card? The answer is YES, in EXACTLY the same way the other director authorised me to use the bank account when making the payment over the phone to AMEX.

So it seems there is no regard to giving authorisations verbally on the go if you will. It comes down the person that owns the instrument or has authority on the instrument can use that instrument at the time of making the transaction.

AMEX whose main argument is that i was not authorised to use the bank account as i had resigned from the company NEVER asked me if permission or authorisation was given to use the bank account. So, the question should not also be asked if permission or authorisation was given to the other person/director to use the credit card
If i reverse the transactions, what will happen? Would the vendors go after the people that used the card to set up the account?
Thoughts?
I know this has become complicated, but i am only doing this because no way will i pay for this debt when every expense was a company expense requested by the directors with the promise for them to pay for it as they had been doing it.