VIC Vexatious and litigious ex

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Dpj

Well-Known Member
1 July 2020
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Sammy. Im reading my life in your posts, just a version 10 years earlier. You are like the mentor i need.. 'be ready for this.. '. ' prep for that...' i too get told what do do, wear, etc. I think she is finding it tough as she cant control me. I used to say to my mates 'ive always worn the pants and im not going to let her control me.' But each time i pushed back, even in a nice collaborative way, i got WW3.

The current orders are interim.

My aim is to have this child care as 'final' as possible as she can be the type of person that hates you in the morning (outrageous verbal abuse) and in the arvo is asking what we think fourth kid should be called. She suggested getting back in march, and rather than say no, i ignored it. 5 days later FVIIO. Walking on egg shells is an understatement.

I reckon we are 95% there. I threw in this morning at her wish that kids are to have 'no gaming consoles with internet connection capabilities that can be connected to a tv'.. goal posts are always moving and im sure she'll start saying 'ok.. ok.. just one more.. you can't drive a black suv on the third sunday of the month if its forecast to rain'.. ill say enough at some point but i havent hit that yet..
 

Step2Three

Well-Known Member
21 December 2018
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...the last parts are more semantics (ie, she wants me to lose days if i re partner and have more kids.
Bit of a red flag that these kind of 'demands' are still a measure to manipulate/control you and your life. Understand it may seem unlikely at the moment, however dust settles and life will go on. And if you ever did have another child, your kids (and the new one) would have an ongoing right to that family relationship.
Full disclosure: I am the 'new' wife, and although my husband had always had trouble with his ex, the withholding and "we hate him" talk started when we got together. Making things official BEFORE anyone repartners is a good idea, but conditions like that are just intended as punishment, not what's good for the kids.
 
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Dpj

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1 July 2020
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conditions like that are just intended as punishment, not what's good for the kids.

I agree. I said i want it out and that it could cause issues moving forward. I assume if i did have more kids i can rightly re-visit the arrangements and if necessary get new court orders.

I have suggested this as a clause/condition. Im wary that i want this order so am willing to cop some of her crap. But once drafted and swing by lawyer for their opinion.
- if one party has another child, that party will contribute up to $5000 toward mediation to discuss impacts of the new child and the effect on the existimg Children of the parties.

She also put in a clause about not being more than 25 min drive from eachother. I said that is way too subjective and, in the context of schooling being a joint decision, suggested
1 - the principal place of residence of the parties must be:
A. Within 15kms as the crow flies of the primary school
B. Within 30km as the crow flies of the secondary school.

Is that a bad idea?
 

Atticus

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6 February 2019
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The last parts are more semantics (ie, she wants me to lose days if i re partner and have more kids. I dont agree but will if its a real sticky point for her. Reality is its prob only a small chance and if it happens ill tackle he issue then).
You asked earlier how a court registrar may review an application for consent orders, & what may cause a problem ..... Clauses like those above.. Quite likely to be asked about that, why it needs to be there & consider removing it... One thing registrars are on the look out for in applications are clauses that have the potential to create unnecessary conflict & finish up back in court. This one is a prime example IMO
 
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Dpj

Well-Known Member
1 July 2020
147
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414
You asked earlier how a court registrar may review an application for consent orders, & what may cause a problem ..... Clauses like those above.. Quite likely to be asked about that, why it needs to be there & consider removing it... One thing registrars are on the look out for in applications are clauses that have the potential to create unnecessary conflict & finish up back in court. This one is a prime example IMO

Thanks @Atticus i really appreciate your help.

I dont want them in there so will let my ex know these may not fly and best to leave them out. Thats a good outcome for me
 

sammy01

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27 September 2015
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No relocation order? Good idea.

My current orders I wrote myself. I like the bit that goes "the children shall live with the father". Shakespeare never wrote a line so sweet.
Apart from that there is a whole bunch of random NUTTER land stuff. I can't change the kids school without her consent. Continue naturopothy for this kid, dietitian for that kid. Dont smoke pot, don't drink alcohol in the presence of the kids. Of course I need alcohol to self medicate from all her stupidity.
BUT - the beautiful bit that matters in your world. It doesn't say what happens IF I don't comply. I can roll a joint in front of them... I think I remember how, but the orders dont' say what happens if i do.

So another stupid example. I have to provide clothes each visit. No worries, BUT she has quite rightly told me that the orders don't require HER to return the clothes. So she didn't for a while. Then I told her that if that continues I won't provide the clothes and she can spend money buying the kids clothes for their visits and a small fortune taking me to court over it. In short Fcuk off.
So now she returns the clothes - she puts the boys play clothes in the bin because they're not good enough, so now I sent play clothes that are close to the end of their lives anyway.

So if the ex wants orders that says you have to lean to the left when in her presences, then agree...
 

Dpj

Well-Known Member
1 July 2020
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Things change fast. I thought we were getting somewhere. We had agreed on care and then we were sorting out the semantics and boom - goal posts changed massively. Her laywers are not very financially savvy and so i had to spoon feed them to show I could retain the family home financially. They still didnt get it but I finally got my ex tonight to understand it. She was 50% off in her thinking (half a house worth in inner Vic). Anyway, she got all excited coz she finally felt she knew the situation and made me an offer (a bad one of course). And then said, "If you agree to this I also agree to a custody agreement where" and then proceeded to lay out a deal where I wouldnt get the kids 50:50 til 2031.. Huh? Firstly, can she make the chld custody conditional on me accepting her financial offer? 5 hours ago I suggested 50:50 in March 2026 and she said lets make it Nov 2025. Seriously. She only cares about the money, its actually sick. But in her perverted emotional dysfunctional way projected again onto me saying things like "we both know you want 50/50 to stop paying child support" and " From the day we go to 50/50 you don't have to pay anymore. " (is that even an option?) and " Even if you accept this, I don't feel like I've won. I feel massively like I've lost. I never really want 50/50 as I think it should never be above 3 nights a week. It's crushing." well why were you offering 7 days 6 years earlier just a few hours ago and for the 24 hours before that?

Interesting thing happened today though, the cops called me (i know its the cops as its the only privatre number that calls) and asked them to ring back for a FVO. I know that she smeared more false accusations just last week as the informant told me and said he couldn't represent me any more (I asked if there was any evidence of he said no. I said she'll just keep doing this). Anyhoo, the hearing was to ajourn my FVIIO for another 3 months due to the pending baby but low and behold, without any notice to me, the magistrate issued a DVO (national) and the cops served it on her today. The cops said they weren't the applicant and I wasn't either. Is that strange? The cops said it was a little unusual especially as I wasn't in attendance (saved my self a whole day just for another adjournment). Any help on what this is and what it means would be great. Ill ring the country cops tomorrow (thats where the informants are). I spoke to my lawyer today who said we got a s**t old skool female judge last time and thats why it went a bit worse than expected. He said with all the stuff gathering up that s**t would start to stick to her and look bad. But I said that i'll go broke defending all this crap and would rather just cut a deal to see the back of it. He looked me up on the system and said I was listed as a victim in 2x incidents in 2019 (June and Aug) which are the ones I finally gathered evidence for as I was sick of her crap.

I still reckon I'll save the $10k on the family report if I can get my ex to agree. My lawyer suggested another mediator (female) which he said is a lot cheaper than the ex lawyer one we are seeing in Sept (he is $4.4k per day). My lawyer said don't bother with Relationships Australia and my mate said the same thing. So the expensive bloke mediator can be for financials and the chick one (a lot cheaper I am told) is for the family stuff. He said she'd knock some sense into my ex in regards to her new child clauses and clauses like the Xbox one. I said I am fine with the xbox one because ill defend it myself if she is ever dumb enough to fight me for it if I change my mind.

I still hope to get a deal on kids in the next few days but need to kiss her butt to get her in a moment of happiness so she actually doesnt try and pull the wool over my eyes. Its a constant battle to try and get s**t sorted when she has a non-b***h moment for a few hours each quarter.
 

sammy01

Well-Known Member
27 September 2015
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A swift upper cut to start the day.
The best thing about divorce.... You don't have to give a fcuk about what she thinks, feels, cares. Why don't you tell her how you feel? Oh because you know she doesn't give a.... So don't be rude, smile and nod then forget all about her feelings. FARK ME she thinks this is a competition that she needs to win? NUTTERS. Now you need to pay attention because up till now the good folk here have been very nice to you... Next time you let yourself worry, stress, cry because she said this or that, go outside and give yourself an uppercut.
So since I'm on boxing metaphors.... Watch this
Muhamad Ali spent 8 rounds in the ring with George Forman. Ali barely threw a punch. For 8 rounds he just blocked. You need to be Ali. Right now you are George Forman. Trying to throw punches, getting nowhere and being emotionally exhausted. Trust me I'm going somewhere with this... Start blocking. So when I was in your situation, I had a solicitor (for a while) writing back to the nutter after every altercation. Each letter =$$$$. And I was emotionally exhausted. So watch Ali again. 8 rounds of blocking, wearing Foreman out and with 20 seconds left in the 8th he starts hitting Foreman. 10 seconds later it is all over. BUT one more thing (I love Ali). After he hit Foreman the knock out blow Ali was ready to throw one more. He didn't. he knew he'd done the job and Foreman didn't need another punch. Classy. Be classy.. But right now you need to put on your runners, get Eye of the Tiger on your playlist, put a teaspoon of concrete in your coffee and toughen the F&%^F up. Don't let yourself worry about what she thinks feels blah blah. And you need to learn to ignore nutter behaviour because it will wear you down like Ali wore down Foreman...

No Relocation clause - Good. I'm in rural NSW. ORDER said no moving beyond 50km. 50km is about 40 min drive time and in most directions 40km puts you halfway between here and nowhere. So at the time I worked at the high school and the primary school was across the road. Keeping the kids there meant drop off / pick up's would be easy once they're all in school. BUT the rules are not strick. If the order says 40km and she moved 70km I'm screwed. All of a sudden it is gonna be impossible for me to pick up the kids from school at 3.pm because I'm at work at 3pm. I needed the kids in the same post code. And I needed her to think moving wasn't an option.

Now just checking? You are now the protected person on the FVO? That all seems very weird. And frankly not good. Way to piss her off man. But there might be some strategies to make this work. You're gonna need to give us some more details. So no doubt she'll be pissed off. You can expect she'll probably apply for a FVO on you. Hopefully, there is a no communication clause. That way she can't burden her with the whole 'i don't feel, you don't care blah blah'


Firstly, can she make the chld custody conditional on me accepting her financial offer? Yes, no and maybe... See in court the two are kinda kept separately. Kids should not be pawns in this game... But let not pretend we live in fairy land.

" From the day we go to 50/50 you don't have to pay anymore. " (is that even an option?). Child support do the math. All you really need to know is that 35% is the magic number. At 35% care you're likely to be entitled to family tax benefit and less child support. 35% rougly means 5 nights a fortnight and half school holidays. Man, the stories I could tell you about how far my ex went to keep me below 35% care... See once she goes below 65% care child support is reduced and family tax benefit is seriously reduced. Now she is gonna be on maternity leave? for a while? reduced income? But for now, don't stress too much about this, just make sure you never ever agree to any $$$ beyond child support. I'm amazed at the amount of blokes who agree to pay for 50% of this that and the other above child support. Funny isn't it. 50/50 care HELL NO. 50/50 on child related expenses HELL YES?? WTF.

IF she keeps playing silly buggers, stop playing. Especially if it is wearing you out. Am I right in thinking these negotiations are via text message / email? Don't play. Be Ali, not Foreman. Clearly all this is doing is exhausting you and she is in control. Like I said, you wouldn't dare think to tell her what you think/feel. The idea is ridiculous.

Story time - Back in the day, SHE would say 'You're not supporting me enough". Hmm, I did the cooking, shopping, cleaning. She did African drumming on Wednesday, I stayed home with the kids, Zumba on Friday. I worked, she didn't. She woke up to an Italian style brewed coffee at 8am. Kids dressed and me out the door to work. I'd be tearing my hair out. What more can I do to support her? One day Isaid to her. 'You are not supporting me enough'. Her response? "stop being a smart arse".Hm.

Solution. Don't play. Don't respond. Ignore anything that is all about ME ME ME.

Just thinking out loud. Accept 5 a fortnight. BUT. you wan't an order that reads "Neither party will rely upon Rice and Asplund". So Rice and Asplund is an important case in family law. Hard to explain, but I'll try. So there are nutters in this world (you've worked that one out). Some of them get addicted to crack, gambling, pot. Some get addicted to the drama of family court and or the fun of using the system to terrorise their ex. Yep you know who Im talking about... You got one of them. To try and stop this nonsense, to stop idiots constantly applying to court there is a threshold that you need to prove in order to re-open a case. You need to show 'significant change in circumstances'. The word 'significant' is a problem. My ex tried to use the fact that the love of her life was moving 7 hours away was significant and to deprive her of the right to move with him (and take the kids) would be a crime against romance. Him moving 7 hours and her wanting to go with.... Was never gonna reach the threshold required to apply to court for the 'no relocation' clause to be removed. Kids becoming teenagers is not a good enough reason either.... BUT if you have a clause that reads 'Neither party will rely upon Rice and Asplund', then in a couple of years time you could apply to the courts for more time...

Now - You're not gonna get 50/50 in court. And I don't think this NUTTER is refusing 50/50 because it's not in the best interests of the kids. She is refusing 50/50 because she can. Tell me if this sounds like you... By the end of my marriage we could not agree on the colour of the sky in summer. The dynamics of the relationship were I am wrong ALWAYS. SHE is right. ALWAYS. When she kicked me out, that dynamic still existed. If i said 50/50 was gonna be good for the kids, she disagreed. WHY? Well that was the dynamic. Nothing had changed. So you gotta learn to fight by not fighting. Lets watch Ali again... He didn't fight. For 8 rounds. When he started fighting... It took 10 seconds.

So how much $$$ do you wanna throw at this?
I'd suggest you offer 5 a fortnight, increasing to 6 in 2 yrs and a Rice and Asplund clause. Good result.
BTW - Time heals. Dont get me wrong, nutters will always be nutters. But these days, sometimes, rarely, but sometimes my ex does something that leads me to think that she has spent enough time visiting our planet to understand some of our cultural practices. One time, by way of example, she called me to tell me she was gonna be an hour late dropping off the kids. The fact that I'd already left for the 3 hour drive means the phone call didn't help. But God bless she tried. She even said sorry. Yep acknowledgement that she had stuffed me around. That is real progress. I'm proud of her... FFS

So I do think you'll find in a few yrs - probably when the new addition has hit the terrible two's - she will be calling you up and begging for you to come take the little darlings off her hands.

Final thought - You've gotta find ways to save $$ on solicitors. Mate if I had my time again I would never ever have spent a dime on solicitors. That said, at the time. I was emotionally broke and I had minimal knowledge of family law. Since my first set of consent orders there have been several solicitors write to me for various reasons and I walk to the bottle shop, grab a six pack, sit at my computer and enjoy writing back... I reckon you're gonna need to learn to do the same.
rant over
 

Atticus

Well-Known Member
6 February 2019
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The cops said they weren't the applicant and I wasn't either. Is that strange? The cops said it was a little unusual especially as I wasn't in attendance (saved my self a whole day just for another adjournment). Any help on what this is and what it means would be great
As the protected person you should receive a copy of the order..... The applicant should be named on there somewhere.. What are the restrictions placed on her?
the ex lawyer one we are seeing in Sept (he is $4.4k per day).
My jaw dropped a little when I read this ^^^ $4,400 a day just for mediation o_O Not sure even barristers charge that for a day in court.... With no guarantee of any agreement at the end of the day, & no guarantee of the crazy even accepting the advice is impartial, that's a lot of money to gamble on a result.... Dunno, maybe he's a magician