QLD Using Domestic Violence Orders to Gain Advantage in Family Court?

[happily dazed]

By chance I got to see a duty children's lawyer morning of court. She clued me up on a lot, and gave me a good serve for feeling sorry for myself, said its nothing to do with me, or her in this court, its all about the kids. She had a quick flick thru dvo and recovery papers, mentioned the fact magistrates are aware of all the games played, and offered to try make a deal with Mrs lawyer, saying if she does, and gives me any unsupervised access at all before the trial, after accusing me of 124 various offences against her and the kids, 3 weeks after separation.

He will know its a load of s**t, go easy on me, and give me a chance to respond and will take what I say on board as well, unlike dv court, where nothing I say means jack s**t, she''s a victim and I'm not worth the risk by believing me, or the conclusive evidence that its all bs, because she lied her ass off, but is still saying scared of me. full stop case closed, and do I accept the dvo or want to get told the same thing after the trial?

Logic, and everyone and everything suggests guilty without omission is the path of least resistance, but a few over riding factors prevent me taking that path, like my childhood listening to my mum getting bounced off walls and no help available, even if was she was too scared to report it, a piece of paper wouldn't stop it, it would create it more.

And my mum is now a dv worker in the courts, and helps women thru the process, including refuge help if need be, and every day she is unable to find spots within refuges as they are full to the brim, of real victims, the fact mrs went last time for weeks on end, running from a cornetto (no dvo in place when offered) is making a mockery of dv and all the people who suffer from it, it also is a joke on the legal system there to protect real victims, and also a pretty big ""f"" you, to me, and my mum, as Mrs well knows and seems to be enjoying.

So I feel kind of obliged to at least let magistrate know he is supporting that to happen, if he cares or not, if it helps or and plus I wouldn't mind being able to go to my house and get tools and stuff that helps with day to day life, as usually given when your address is not lied about on application.

She reported every txt as a breach, police issued none, all were about kids, as hadn't heard or seen them for 5 week (first dvo may 2016). She withdrew it herself and came home, promising was not her idea, was her mums, was never scared or afraid, and felt s**t about being in refuge etc. Also promising never could or would she do it again. 10 months later here we are, hard to handle or accept, or just casually plead guilty to save the inevitable hassle for no end result worth going thru it, just stubborn pride and worthy a try.

I think that about covers that part.

 

[happily dazed]

As for me, prior to dvo last year, I worked 10 years in mines, fifo, or here there n everywhere, made $200k a year plus, was in Darwin working on a lpng export terminal, got ross river fever and barmah forrest virus from mosquito bites, was sick as a dog and slept heaps, took 18 months for blood tests to say had gone dormant, had income protection for 1 year, when it ran out, so do Mrs belief in the virus existence. All got pretty depressing, and funny you mention mental health plan...

I got one from gp to get counselling for us as a couple, she wouldn't come, my problems not hers, day after valentines day this year, I was at my shed as often am when didn't do something or did do something to cause a drama, I was first on scene of a horrific car crash, gave cpr to a 20 yo kid for 35 mins, he was dead when I started, died on impact for sure, wasn't even bleeding from horrific cuts across neck and head, however, cpr made them bleed, out eyes, nose, mouth, ears, neck you name it, and 35 mins of stuff that no one should see or hear or feel under there hands right in front of your face, left me a bit of a mess, ptsd type mess, happily I had an unused mental heal plan, served in military, plus a bit down already, which got me into a clinic that does transcranial magnetic stimulation, helps recover from trauma, usually returned soldiers etc.

Also depression and a range of other mental health issues, including drug addiction, 3 guesses why I was there in affidavior return order, no car crash was mentioned, or virus etcnot only put daughter at risk of a sex predator, also a ice addict that is irrational and unpredictable.

I have a bit of trouble sleeping, have nightmares, wake up sweating, and can throw up just thinking about things. but I'm getting there and no threat to anyone myself included as a result, my kids have been the best thing for me, and we've always been close regardless. they all love dirtbikes, girls included, daughters first words were dad and scooter

I've focused on them and how they are coping with 2 years of s**t and what me leaving means o them and for them, i got the two older ones that were with me their own mental health plans and was taking them to see a child psychologist at the same place i go to see one for my s**t, Mrs doesn't think they need to, and has been against it since the beginning, I offered for her to be involved and also to include the youngest, who she refused to allow tio see any of us for the last 6 weeks between leaving and recovery orders, which he got 2 weeks ago now. im living in a studio on my mums property I built 10 years ago for me and Mrs to live in cheap when we first met to save for our own house.

We often use it to spend weekends with family and kids love it, oldest was born here, others it's a home away from home, it's where me n kids were when recovery orders were made, no mention of history here, just that id taken them from their home, not our home, blah blah you get the idea.

I hope that clears up what you mentioned a little, and explains why i feel my situation is bit different to a lot of others, not all, but most anyway, where guilty no omission is obvious choice, that's why im reaching out for help. I'm a crane driver, ex weapon engineer in military, not a lawyer - I've researched and studied dv to ridiculous measures, and am stumped for ideas, i know its not impossible to have them revoked. I even have a mate that had one thrown out from court, but he cant explain how as his lawyer submitted everything on his behalf.

Lastly, family court magistrate gave me 3 days a fortnight, Mrs 11. I just dropped kids back this evening, we meet at a remote servo on the countryside half way between home and where I'm staying on mum's property. Doesn't suggest a lot of fear of me, was her choice not mine, and I pay our mortgage and always have, she lives at our house with kids, collects $1500 a fortnight as single parent.

I get $500 fortnight on sickness benefit. I'm going backwards at a rate of knots and won't be paying a thing for lawyers, I can't just rely on community outreach type ones for advice and help with understandings docs and procedures, and I shouldn't complain, but they can be a negative lot at times. I just resigned to the fact there's no hope, and hopes all I have up against Mrs top lawyers, her parents are paying for.

That's another question actually, family court recovery order hearing, her lawyer said she's such and such from such and such law firm, acting for her mother but representing her, what's with that? Last dvo she said her mum made it all happen, does that mean its her mum calling the shots, or do lawyers just have to declare if someone else paying the tab ?

 

[happily dazed]

Had to split rant - the rants were far too long for the forum. Hope it worked, done over few days when I'm awake late - dare ya to read it :-0

 

[AllForHer]

Okay, some comments.

First, DVOs are civil matters, not criminal, so you won't be pleading 'guilty' to anything. When you consent without admissions, what you're saying is basically 'whatever, I'm happy never to talk to you again anyway, on your way'.

Now, you've got kids, right, so this is very likely to become a parenting matter in the near future, correct? Consenting to a DVO without admissions is actually the safest option to protect you in Family Court and this is why.

In Family Court, it's the risk of harm to the kids that gets assessed, not whether or not you've been violent, so a DVO consented to without admissions means the allegations of violence remain as just that - allegations, nothing more. The Family Court will put next to no weight on a DVO consented to without admissions because it doesn't prove anything about whether or not a risk to the kids exists.

But when you contest a DVO in a state court and take it to trial, the Court must make a finding that domestic violence has occurred in order to make the order warranted. Suddenly, the allegations against you must be tested, and since the definition of domestic violence is very loose in state Courts because it's better to be safe than sorry in such matters, the most likely outcome is that you end up with a finding from a state Court that you've been violent.

Allegations are one thing, but a finding from a Court of law is entirely another. When a Court tests the evidence and decides to make a finding that you've been violent, that is something the Family Court is less likely to ignore.

Second, your case is not the place to be making a political statement about DV laws in your state. I understand the frustration with feeling unjustly targeted and not wanting her to win because of that, but contesting the DVO because you feel it's a mockery and a slap in the face to real victims is going to be a very pointless exercise. Legislative reform happens in Parliament. It doesn't happen in the Court. Don't make the mistake of thinking justice will prevail. It very much does not have to when it comes to a DVO.

A DVO isn't necessarily a bad thing against a nasty ex because it means you have every excuse in the world to ignore her. When kids are involved, focus your energy on parenting orders, not a DVO.

 

[Rod]

Very sound insight by AllForHer.

 

[sammy01]

Yup - accept avo without admission is a much smarter move...

Guess what - you fight it you lose.... She feels vindicated and if she is as nasty as she seems she will enjoy abusing the power an avo gives her...

You need to be smarter.

Story time - I got called to the cop shop 3 or 4 times. Trivial crap, really crazy crap at times.. The ex could not find her car keys for two days... She was adamant I had broken into her house and stoen the keys... YUP - when she found them, I had broken into the house to return them... Both times I get called to the cop shop... Both times the cops called me and told me to come to the cop shop ASAP.

They told me they would come to my workplace (school teacher) If I did not present myself to the cop shop... (how embarrassing). Anyways, initially, they treated me like crap... They even believed it plausible that I had stolen her keys.... When she called up and told then I had 'returned the keys' and I suggested to the coppers that maybe - just maybe she is unhinged...

The coppers started to realise... They actually felt sorry for me... But the coppers explained, when there is a complaint they had to investigate... Eventually, they agreed that I didn't need to come to the cop shop every time she lodged a complaint... The cops would call me, we'd have a nice chat and they could then call her back and tell them that they had taken her complaint seriously and had investigated it... Short version, everyone plays their part - She is a victim complaining - the police are doing their job by investigating... I played my part well... and the cops left me alone...

So - lets play smart- fighting the avo and losing will tell her that the courts are on her side.

Now I'm really sorry for all you've been through - but lets cut to the case - accept avo. Continue fighting for more time with the kids.... Start playing smart... So you said she ls living in the house? but you're paying for it? Ok so when I was in that situation and I had an avo against me so I could not go near the house... I stopped paying for mortgage...

Funny how that changed the dimensions of the situation... Instead of her refusing to talk to me about anything.... All of a sudden she wanted to sit down to discuss now I didn't want to discuss the mortage, she didn't want to discuss letting me see the kids.... In the end, she agreed to letting me see more of the kids and I agreed to pay the mortgage as long as she agreed to put it on the market because she could not afford to live there....

So the point to my story is stop worrying about the injustices in the system... Guess what, the system ain't that bad, the only real problem is that there are nasty folk out there who are prepared so abuse the system... But guess what we all do it.... I did it too - Lets look at from my ex's perspective... I'm abusive and controlling. OK lets go with that... I made her give me time with the kids by threatening to let the bank take the house... I put her in a no win situation... So I was strategic... I was also very nice and polite and never bad mouthed her...

So when it looked like court, she pulled some very similar stunts to what you're copping.... So she has accused you of being an addict. Don't argue - just agree to submit to drug tests... So don't argue... Limit the arguments to any suggestion that you're an unfit daddy / abusive etc etc...

 

[happily dazed]

Thanks chaps, sorry for the winge. I think I knew the out come of your answers prior, and I also think I know it's the right thing for myself to do, and I guess I will, I just hoped for a miracle insight is over looked and on the off chance a few good results were shared perhaps was worth challenging, but you are both correct.

I have all the evidence, txts etc to suggest it's all a complete fabrication, simply to bypass parent plans n mediation and get the recovery orders, but I can provide conclusive evidence no fear exists, nor that the loose term of DV has not been committed, even if both ways, but God it shits me still, and seems like something needs doing about it.

I dunno statistics but it would be interesting to know how many really are separation tools, I reckon if a temp order is issued, there should be police reports attached, and found to be better than average change that such n such actually occurred. In my case, the police did attend, did make a report, she just doesn't give a shot what it said, or what the cop said, as it wasn't gonna get her where she wanted to be, so, simply change it to suit, happy days!

Question, say I plead no omission? And set to work on family court issue and try get the kids off the nu job, what approach do I take, the children lawyer mentioned in my winge said go full throttle, prove a good few stories on her affidavit are s**t, that will discredit the rest, then do best imagine able effort demonstrating what I can offer the kids and how it's a safe and living environment etc, and lastly to give a decent bit of material suggesting she is completely unfit to have the kids, and go for supervised aces only, as that's what her statement was designed for, the fact she didn't ask for it and just left it to the judge, and accepted his decision without a care in the world about the risk I posed to get urgent orders, effectively delivering the kids right back where they were for 3 days a fortnight, 5 mins is enough to get sexually abused, why would any mother accept that if true ?

Thoughts ?

That was from approx 65 yo lady that used to be a woman's DV worker, switched to men and eventually kids as she was sick of both parents not giving a s**t, she sent switched on but brutal, there's no doubt she got me a result I had zero chance of getting myself with the attitude I had and the lack of knowledge about what was happening, is she right ? To a degree ? Or taking a stab ?

 

[sammy01]

Learn to play the game...

If you want to change the laws - write to politicians... I have. Don'e help much, but made me feel good. Lean a little bit about male suicide rates - Sure there are 3 women tragically killed by their partner each week (or there about depending on who you asks....) and DV is bad... Lots of attention is given by the media to this horrible social issue. But what of the 8 male lives lost to suicide every day - and how many of those blokes to you think have had involvement in the family law system in the 2 yrs prior to topping themselves. heaps - but there is no evidence and no research because no one cares and no-one wants to do anything about it... Rant over...

But what should you do? Play the game. Be nice. Explain that you're prepared to bury the hatchet (metaphorically) and that you're looking forward to co-parenting with the mother in a fashion that has the best interests of the kids as being your central motivator.

So her is my basic rule - I would do anything for my kids... Sadly, for me anyways - the best thing I can do for my kids is be nice to the one person I hate in this world the ex...

So my ex tried to convince these crazy legal people that she was scared of little ol' me.... That she should be able to move 700km away with the kids because she lives in fear.... But even with an avo that I accepted without admission, we never went to court for her planned relocation. She had to accept that I had provided her with no substantial real provable evidence to support her assertion that I am mean, nasty and scary... So she left the kids with me and moved 700km away - and I lived happily ever after...

 

[happily dazed]

One for the road undertakings? Any thoughts?

 

[sammy01]

Some states accept an undertaking... My thought, splitting hairs. Accept without admission and move on... Remember - there are basically no legal ramifications of an avo - unless you have a gun licence, or are a police officer...