QLD Using Domestic Violence Orders to Gain Advantage in Family Court?

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happily dazed

Well-Known Member
18 May 2017
25
0
121
Gold Coast QLD
Hi

Is this the correct place to be asking questions relating to domestic violence orders being used to gain the desired results from family court proceedings, parental alienation, financial abuse etc ?

NB : I don't have any real understanding of what the words in my title mean, but I read them somewhere a while back, and have stayed with me since, they sound exactly like what's going on in my world!

Cheers!
 

sammy01

Well-Known Member
27 September 2015
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Ask away...

So the ex has taken an AVO against you to get an upper-hand in the new, fun game all the family can play called Family Law? Take the AVO seriously, or you will go straight to jail and your ex will collect $200 child support.

You are not the first and wont be the last to have those words whirling around in your head... So ask away and I'm sure you'll get some good opinions.
 

Hoang Trang

Well-Known Member
22 July 2016
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414
ask away...
So the ex has taken an avo against you to get an upper-hand in the new, fun game all the family can play called FAMILY LAW? Take the avo seriously, or you will go straight to jail and your ex will collect $200 child support.

You are not the first and wont be the last to have those words whirling around in your head.. So ask away and I'm sure you'll get some good advice..
I get anxiety every time you post
 
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sammy01

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27 September 2015
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Oh alright...

So AVO/DVO are often 'used' as a ploy in family law. Fortunately, the magistrates etc etc are well aware of it and I'm sure they hate seeing laws that are meant to protect the vulnerable being used to prevent one parent from seeing their kids, or what ever. So the practical realities of an AVO/DVO are a pain in the ***. If you're smart, the AVO won't damage your case when it comes to asset division or child access in the long term.

To be honest the AVO is the best thing my ex ever gave me... (she had a crap ability at buying presents, she bought be a concrete dophin statue for my 30th b'day) but the AVO was awesome. No more kiss and make up, no more of me apologising - the marriage was over and it wasn't just that I didn't have to talk to her anymore, it was technically illegal for me to talk to her. Bliss.

Hoang - feeling better?
 
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Hoang Trang

Well-Known Member
22 July 2016
136
12
414
Oh alright...

So AVO/DVO are often 'used' as a ploy in family law. Fortunately, the magistrates etc etc are well aware of it and I'm sure they hate seeing laws that are meant to protect the vulnerable being used to prevent one parent from seeing their kids, or what ever. So the practical realities of an AVO/DVO are a pain in the ***. If you're smart, the AVO won't damage your case when it comes to asset division or child access in the long term.

To be honest the AVO is the best thing my ex ever gave me... (she had a crap ability at buying presents, she bought be a concrete dophin statue for my 30th b'day) but the AVO was awesome. No more kiss and make up, no more of me apologising - the marriage was over and it wasn't just that I didn't have to talk to her anymore, it was technically illegal for me to talk to her. Bliss.

Hoang - feeling better?
Just the humour alone made me feel better. That and the fact that you got a crapper birthday present then I ever did
 

happily dazed

Well-Known Member
18 May 2017
25
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121
Gold Coast QLD
Apologies for the delay, forum inept couldn't work out how to reply...log on helped

But yeah that's about the story, 2nd private temp protection order in 12 months!

1st one listed some heinous crimes like -

"He text saying he was calling round for a hug on Mother's Day (when in proverbial dogbox), I said no don't. He came anyway, left an ice cream at the gate for me and my mum, and left. I didn't even know he had come til he had already left....the end"

"Our children have been exposed to DV"

"He leaves physically during our (her) arguments, but then sends text msgs when he arrives at his shed (seems less confrontational, also avoids exposing kids to dv)."

"He uses withdrawal as a form of DV (leaves during her arguments, worst thing you can do is not argue when one is needed)":

I'm sure its pretty common place and nothing unique about it, I was sitting in the courthouse and there was a little booklet on the table beside me "the little purple book" its called, describes ins n outs of DV, what is DV, seems not much isn't DV, etc and here was the compete rest of her application, word for word, "he calls me crazy and de-rangéd" and so on. Helped explain wtf she was talking about when I read it at first, whole bunch of things I've never said to her, or anyone else.

Anyway, that was May 2016. She listed the kids and her mum as name persons on the temp order, also the house. The orders were the standard ones on all orders made, plus 5 extras, making it pretty extreme, having done nothing but ask to draw up some parenting plans as I was over not seeing my kids, and over her and her crap, it turns out that was her idea of parenting plan

Can't argue its effectiveness. I got arrested in a driveway coming home from weekend dirt bike riding with the kids. Cops forgot the paperwork so arrested me and took me to police station to serve temp order, that was the last I heard from kids for 3 weeks, or seen for 6 weeks. I'd spoken to them or seen them every day of their lives prior - it was messed up, and the closest I've ever come to actually goinf and committing DV, the day before the mention at court, her family came and completely emptied the house.

The judge wouldn't remove the kids or tell her lawyer to sort visits out, called me the scrounge of society, thought I hadn't read [paperwork and that it said I can contact her re kids only, but he missed the with her written permission bit, the few times I tried that got a call from police we soon after saying reported breach, but no charges laid as stayed on topic, but no kids either.

After 8 weeks, out of the blue she called, said I needed to see the kids and wanted to meet on the sunshine coast, so I went up, within half an hour she said she regretted it, was her mums idea etc etc and simply came home, went and withdrew the order, happy days - wtf

11 months later, same old crap again - said I'm out, need to work out something with kids, booom, another one. I'd already left for a week or two, and had 2 of the 3 kids with me. Turned up at a bbq I was at with her dad recording, snatched 6 yo daughter off a swing and put on a holy wood performance. A dozen adults and some kids there, all a bit baffled by it.

In the end I went and got daughter off her and few people asked them both to leave. It was a bit chaotic, nothing serious - cops came, said heard the recording, we done right thing just kept saying to leave or not welcome, etc etc, specifically stated - no DV occurred, no assault occurred as her dad was alleging, in other words, a recorded attempt to cause a DV situation for me failed, not so, disregarding the police report and finding, she simply wet n made up a new story same incident, and got a private one, not a word resembling truth whole document.

They even put last year's ice cream incident on it, then immediately went and filed for a return order to fed circuit court, gave a new version again of same incident on affidavit, plus 124 bullet point incidents and wrong doings, and on the notice of risk document, put down I expose my daughter to risk of sexual abuse, from her 6 yo cousin that she's been around entire life, we have spent every other weekend their as a family riding dirt bikes, but, as I had 1 working day notice to respond to a 53 page affidavit and the lawyer was unavailable.

It got her across the line, had to return the kids straight after court to me. They were gutted and it was horrible, I got 3 days a fortnight - she got 11, have 7 weeks to respond and a child inclusive conference etc.

DV mention is this Thursday in magistrates court. I've prepared a doc with evidence to suggest beyond doubt the whole DV was a scam to get to fed circuit court, then that was a scam to get recovery orders, and I've spoken to half a dozen solicitors and every one of them said the DVO sticks, balance of probability, no magistrate will risk their ass removing it, even at trial if proven statement was all s**t, she stands their says shes scared, its staying.

What the hell is going on with this issue? I get the logic used, it's not a criminal offence, she doesn't want you near her, stay away, but meanwhile, you left a woman and child abuser holed from your own house, can't go within 100m of it, or her, or your kids without written permission, because its political, and magistrates are gutless, and family court cant ignore magistrates ruling when dishing out recovery orders, or fair access arrangements.

So that's a really long winded way to ask, wtf do I do ? Just accept t as a reality, courts are to busy to hear me out (many others as well), magistrates are gutless, doesn't matter if there's not as word of truth whole statement, and with out a doubt was just a separation tool, weapon even, and no fear of any kind, not from me, or from the legal system or anyone else, all just puppets in a game of hide behind a hot topic.

Is there no such thing as an abuse of process, have we really just got woman filing vexatious and malicious DVO applications around like they're going out of fashion, with no fear of recourse what so ever?

I get the need for protection for women, from real offenders. I grew up watching and hearing my mum getting bounced off the walls, car sabotaged so she couldn't leave, etc, she got told to harden up. Nowadays, buy an ice cream on Mothers Day, 5 years on woman and child abuser status.

Any suggestions to put an argument that could actually work if evidence rules statement out, how do ya get around pretend fear ?

Any help be much appreciated, needs a shake up in legislation to protect blokes I'm thinking?

Sorry for the spelling, grammar, length - it's late and no spell check that I can find.

Thanks in advance if any suggestions made
 

happily dazed

Well-Known Member
18 May 2017
25
0
121
Gold Coast QLD
NB

I get what you're saying - it's not the end of the world, or the worst thing that could happen to me, but it's still s**t, and now I'm facing DV hearings at magistrates courts, parent, property and all the rest of the fed court crap.

I was still back writing a parenting plan, waiting for mediation happening a week after she bypassed the whole show, cruises into family court a victim, I cruise in a perpetrator - gonna cost s**t load, instead of her going as a greedy unreasonable twat, thanks to mediation outcome, and me being a more than reasonable dad who just wants to see his kids in the absence of his wife, who turned into a $^^^$$%&

Cheers
 

sammy01

Well-Known Member
27 September 2015
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2,894
Ooh that was a good rant... Well two good rants actually. And given it was done at 3.30am... I'm thinking you need a hug...

So some friendly advice... Go see doctor... Get a mental health plan and spend some time speaking to a counsellor. Mate when I went mad, I was scared of seeing a counsellor in-case somehow I would wind up in court with the ex saying he is mad, only mad people go to counsellors... A good counsellor can help you deal with the stress.

Mensline is worth a look too. Lots of blokes there who have been through similar and can give you good personal advice...

Help, Support & Counselling Services For Men | MensLine Australia

Now in that great big rant all the details about where your up to kinda got lost... Summarise the situation for us...

When is avo application? Thursday?

Look I reckon it is better to accept without admission... Save your money for family law court.

Story time... Old mate had an avo on him... Ex calls from a pay phone - tells him she is at a pub with the kids and she wants him to pick them up... He goes to pub. She isn't there... Calls her mobile leaves a message.... She calls claims to be at another pub, again on a pay phone so no record that it was her that called - he answers, she tells him to go to second pub...

He goes, she's not there..Calls her mobile, no answer leaves a message. This continues. He is getting mighty pissed off and says so..in the messages / text messages etc etc. She goes to the cops with all these messages - he goes to jail for three months, loses his job and doesn't see his kids anymore...

Learn a lesson... Don't put an icecream anywhere near her.... You need to understand an ice cream is a threatening weapon...

Now in your post you alluded to recovery orders? what was that about?

Do you have a case pending in family law court?

Have you contacted Relationships Australia to try to organise mediation?

Who is living in the family home?

Who is paying for it? mortgage? rent?

Are you paying child support?

How often are you seeing the kids? When did you see them last? How much time do you want with the kids down the track?

tay calm... Let me help explain. NOPE the system isn't corrupt, no the magistrates are not gutless. Yes the system is slow... You have to learn to play the system and so far the ex is running rings around you... And by the sounds of things you're about to start making some really big mistakes to help her cause...

So let me give ya an example... You're planning on challenging the avo? you've prepared a doc that 'proves' it is all a scam... So you're gonna walk into court - present doc and you reckon the magistrate is going to bang his hammer thingy while telling the ex that she is a nutter.... Nope ain't gonna happen... Like you said, half a dozen solicitors have told you so... You are not gonna win this fight so don't have it...

Next - she has provided a 124 point 53 page document of crap... You could argue each and every one of those 124 points. Or even just half of them... I bet you'll win too. You'll prove that all of them are lies, you'll prove that the ex is nasty and vindictive - great... But you won't be seeing your kids... Why? Well you will have really only proven one thing.

Do you know what you will have proven to the magistrate? You will have proven that you and her are stupid... And that you and her do nothing but argue. So the magistrate will be forced to make a shitty decision and that decision will be based on the only thing that matters 'best interests of the kids'

Now by the sounds of things you've already had a recovery order against you for the kids? How did that come about? did you take the kids while on an avo? Did you take the kids without informing the mother? Look mate I get it.. They are your kids too. Sure you should be able to pick them up when ever you want right? WRONG - why? because it is disruptive and demonstrates an inability to work cooperatively as parents.. More on that later....

It would also appear that despite having an AVO on you, you continued to contact her because you didn't understand the rules of the avo.. "your honour, I didn't understand' is not a defence you want to be relying upon... Again more reason for her to claim that she is scared of you and as such she can't possibly be expected to try and parent with that nasty ice cream wielding maniac...

Now can you tell me how is it in the best interests of the kids to have to bounce between two parents who are so consumed with hatred for each other that they can't function in a way that is beneficial to the kids? nope you cant. And that will be her argument.

So if you want to spend time with your kids, you need to change your approach. Your approach needs to look like this... Sure, there is some conflict, some disagreements right now... But mostly it is over child access. In fact you and the ex generally agree about how to parent the kids, but right now there is conflict about when you're gonna see them and that is why you're in court... If you want to go to court to prove the ex is a twit - go for your life... But why does that matter? being a twit isn't illegal...

So you have a child inclusive conference coming up? Good learn to calm down... If you go to that thing and do anything other than talk about the kids, the stuff you do with the kids, read to them, attend school stuff, participate as a good dad then you are stupid. All you want to do is talk about how good you are as a dad... Feel free to talk about how stupid mum is - but if you do, you are stupid. simple...

So having re-read your post - I reckon the ex has about a year's worth of 'evidence' against you... and frankly, I reckon you have made some mistakes along the way... but you can recover from that... So remember, her case is going to be all about how there is way too much conflict between you and her for the kids to be able to have a safe and secure childhood where they are not damaged by adult stupidity...

Your case needs to be all about how you are a good dad and that you are prepared to work with the mum in the best interests of the kids - so write me a post demonstrating all of that... go on dare ya
 

happily dazed

Well-Known Member
18 May 2017
25
0
121
Gold Coast QLD
Thanks for replying Sammy.

Some good points well made. s**t part is I know what your saying, more than my rat gives credit for, but ill respond in the order you have asked in.

In qld, we have dvo not avo, but I think they are much the same but exclusive to within a family. I think they are about to dfvo, domestic family violence orders, they can be police issued, generally real issues of dv are, or privately applied for ones, good separation tools, no evidence required.

Yeh there's the mention on this Thursday 25/05

She will definitely want it to stay in force, and at present its just standard conditions on all dvo, but on Thursday it will get a bit of a variation to up the anti, for now its just don't commit dv against her or kids, don't go to our house ( she said I live elsewhere anyway, just meant I didn't get chance to go collect belongings ), and added not to post about her on internet, she has been busy doing that about me, and doesn't want any feed back to suggest its all bs because I had two of the 3 kids at the time, ph and all the rest of it was needed for her to have contact when she wanted, but now she has all 3 and consent orders via recovery order, no longer needs ph or anything else. so that will be what she asks for at mention. complete shut out, just like like last one was.
 

happily dazed

Well-Known Member
18 May 2017
25
0
121
Gold Coast QLD
Recovery Orders.......

I had two of three kids when s**t fight started, was during recent flooding from cyclone up north. House was safe, I was helping neighbours who weren't. She called and said she wanted to evacuate, so I went home and she had car boot packed computers, hard drives etc. I done run around yard and sheds etc, loaded kids in my car, hers was packed with stuff. She then said she didn't want to, because I'd said we were safe earlier, meaning guaranteed night of s**t because things like that are tell tale sign that argument coming, nothing I say will help.

I said now its been put out there - let's just not take risk and go to somewhere high and dry. More important where there are other humans, save the arguing and tomorrow a new day, but she wouldn't hear it. The kids wanted to go to their cousins' house anyway, so I said I'm going and hope to see her there. She talked our 6 yo daughter into staying with her to go to her schoolmate's bday party in the morning. Me and other two left - 8yo boy & 3 yo.girl.

We couldn't convince her to come when we got to my sister's house that arvo. Next day was still shitty. Day 3 she called and said she's coming to get kids. I said have to wait half an hour till I'm back from shops. She went there anyway and was trying to take the kids when I turned up. They didn't want to go, I said they didn't have to, so she took youngest one leaving 6 yo daughter in place of 3 yo.

We have our dirtbikes and buggies, etc there, was start of school holidays, and for once I decided to make a bit of a stand, and not be sorry for her situation, and just had fun with the kids, till day 11 anyway. She turned up with her dad after dark, we had a bbq about a dozen kids few more than that adults, they pulled up driveway (11 acre property) she went straight to kids outside play area and grabbed our 6yo off swing, full holywood, over loud etc, bit of a commotion followed and a bunch of us asked them both to leave, which they did, saying calling cops on way out.

I called to give my story, cops turned up to take statement having heard hers, and said he had listened to a recording they made, which explained behaviour, her loud, her dad repeating over and over they come in peace, weird thing to be saying, have came for ten years without saying it?

Anyway, cop said all he heard was them being asked to leave, and we had done the right thing, certainly no dv, no assault as they had suggested, I explained concerns about her putting dvo, he said not from this, and if either party does and he gets subpoena to a hearing, it wont go well for the party who does. she did it anyway, harrowing tale of an abused mother being denied her kids, then used dvo to bypass mediation, to afraid and I'm too unreasonable to negotiate with anyway.

Then filed for recovery orders, saying I didn't live in my own house, that I came and verbally over powered her and took two of her kids, said I had refused her access from the beginning, said cops had failed her, and the winner was that I was exposing 6 yo daughter to sexual abuse from a cousin, who is 6 yo same as daughter is, and became a serious sex predator between her dropping daughter off to me, and time statement was made. She forgot to mention the age of sex predator, or that she dropped daughter off their, or that we had spent every other weekend there as a family since kids were born/

It's my sister's place who's married to my best mate with kids same age as ours? Doesn't have the same ring to it when that is known, so recovery order was granted as I received electronic service Fri night, court was Tues 9.30. Lawyer was unavailable. I had a 53 page affidavit to respond to in 1 working day, that I spent most of in shock and trying to get hold of lawyer.