TAS Traffic Infringement Notice for Going Through Amber Light?

Discussion in 'Traffic Law Forum' started by zero, 9 March 2019.

  1. zero

    zero Member

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    Thanks Scruff. It sounds nice on paper, but in reality the timing of approaching the intersection was not great for either option.

    Thanks for your responses everyone.
     
  2. Ozwarlock67

    Ozwarlock67 Well-Known Member

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    There is something that hasn't been mentioned here;

    If the cop was in the car behind you, then he must just about run a red light to stay with you...and what did he use to insist you were doing 59? His speedo? That's no more accurate than a laser gun and those things have a proven history of inaccuracy.

    That said, Zero, I just want to give you a couple of tips for dealing with cops on a traffic stop.

    1) Do not ever admit anything at the roadside. In fact, go the opposite way and deny. Questions will be asked in such a way as to get you to admit an offence.

    2) You will be asked to produce your licence. The longer you stall on doing this, the more likelihood the cop will get another job over the radio or will give up and issue you a stern warning. As soon as you produce your licence, he will start writing the ticket and any chance at talking your way out of this is gone. On top of which, once he has handed you the ticket and is heading back to his car with the customary "Have a nice day" to rub in the salt, you've pretty much been served and the next move is up to you. Pay it or ring your solicitor.

    3) Ask questions. Stall for time. Ask to see the speed on the laser gun even if you know one wasn't involved. Bear in mind that with the lasers, they have to retain the reading and show it to you if asked as too many people were getting off fines over this one.

    4) Ask more questions. Deny. Keep him talking. Deny some more.

    5) If you end up with a ticket anyway and you think there may be something dubious about it all, write down the details of the conversation ASAP afterwards. It may be handy against the Brief Of Evidence if the matter goes to court.

    6) Don't be afraid to request the officer's name, rank and badge number. If asked, he is required to supply them to you.
     
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  3. Reag

    Reag Well-Known Member

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    You can file a complaint against the officer for tailgating you. Police departments treat all complaints seriously.

    If he was alone, that makes it easier for you to deny any wrongdoing.
     
  4. Scruff

    Scruff Well-Known Member

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    From a court's point of view, this is totally irrelevant and it's definately something that you should never bring up in a defence. Doing so will only work against you, because it will always be viewed as an attempt to shift the court's focus to something which has nothing to do with the actual offence. That is never a good idea.

    If the laser is mounted on the vehicle (ie; not hand held) then it has to be linked to the speedo anyway. This is because if the Police vehicle is in motion, the laser can only detect the "speed differential" between the two vehicles. The speed of the Police vehicle then has to be added on to calculate the speed of the target vehicle.

    Another thing is that modern speedos and lasers are far more accurate than people think. As technology moves forward, more and more arguments about the inaccuracy of these things are being disproven or found to be no longer relevant to newer technology.

    In short, in this day and age, you should never rely on technology being inaccurate as a defence unless you have definitive proof of it. You would lose far more often than you would win, and for every argument that is disproven, a new precedent is set for future cases - thus the steady decline over time for defences of this type being successful.

    That is extremely poor and irresponsible advice.

    It is highly unlikely that the Police will receive another call and leave, so doing this will only irritate them. The far more likely result will be that the Police will start looking for something else to book you for, because you're going out of your way to be a pain the arse. More often than not, following this kind of advice will get you into even more trouble.

    Again, this is also irresponsible, especially with the emphasis on the word "IS". Laws vary from state to state and I am not aware of any in Australia that require a Police officer to supply a badge or ID number as many people believe - that requirement is usually nothing more than Hollywood myth.

    Most of the time, Police are only required to provide their name, rank and station if asked and only if they haven't already provided that information. In other words, if they introduce themselves with that info, then you disagree with something and ask for them to repeat it so you can write it down, they don't have to provide it a second time. Furthermore, in at least some states (NSW for example), if there are multiple officers in attendence, only one officer is required to provide that info if asked and again, only if none of the officers have already done so.

    Another myth is that Police are required to show identification if asked. That usually only applies if they are not in uniform. If they are in uniform, Police are usually not required to show you anything at all, even if asked.

    Again, always remember that these laws differ from state to state, so never kick up a fuss over this type of thing unless you are absolutely certain of what the laws are in the relevant jurisdiction. If you kick up a fuss over something like this and get it wrong, you could find yourself facing an obstruction charge.
     
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  5. kevin586

    kevin586 Well-Known Member

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    His statement tells me doesn't have much . His claim that you were doing "X' through an amber light is nothing more than an opinion.

    Ask him "what law in your state says that you cannot drive through an amber light" Does he have picture to show from his radar gun? If not it means he did not get you on radar. Ask him in court can he prove with substantiating evidence that this picture of what he alleges is your vehicle, has not been digitally altered. You have just provided Reasonable Doubt.

    I learned this from Aussiespeedingfines and Know Your Rights Group - so can you.
     
  6. Ozwarlock67

    Ozwarlock67 Well-Known Member

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    Kevin, can you supply me a link for the Know Your Rights group please?
     
  7. Reag

    Reag Well-Known Member

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    The slower you hand over your details, the better it is for you. I'm sure no police officer likes to stand on the side of a busy road for too long.

    As for booking you for something else, you have a right to question everything and you wouldn't be doing this if you didn't believe you have done no wrong
     
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  8. Tim W

    Tim W Lawyer
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    This is an ignorant and dangerous suggestion.
    Even a policeman with a mere middling work ethic
    will almost always stand there as long as it takes.
    The longer you take to do anything gives them more time
    to look for more things to book you for.
    Including offences in the realm of obstruction,
    and (what in NSW we call for short) "Fail To Produce Licence".
    Further, any inclination on their part to write you up for a lesser grade of offence
    (say, exceed speed 5-15 when you were doing 25 over) also dilutes rapidly.

    Plus, your RSAT* score drops off exponentially, the more of a d!ck you are.
    This sort of conduct can inspire police to... particular and exemplary diligence.
    So, unless you want to have a nice lie down over the bonnet
    while your car is tossed, and very, very closely inspected for defects,
    and a they do a... lengthy and thorough... check of you and anyone in the car with you,
    which, if nothing else, will embarrass, delay, and inconvenience you,
    don't be a smart ar5e.
    This is also ignorant and dangerous advice.
    Police powers - especially those involving roadside stops are express, particular,
    and have been tested in court time and again.
    Know your rights, sure. I'm a big fan f that.
    But don't assume that what you think you know, or that what you see on TV,
    or read about on the internet, is even close to reality.




    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    *Road Side Attitude Test
     
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  9. Reag

    Reag Well-Known Member

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    If you have done no wrong, then what are you afraid of... are you always so quick to hand over your hard earned money?

    No one is saying you should be a dick. You are allowed to take your time and question authority. You have every right to. Police officers can and do make mistakes. How will they ever know they did, if you are always a pushover?
     
  10. Ozwarlock67

    Ozwarlock67 Well-Known Member

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    I seem to have ignited some debate here. That was not my intention.

    Everyone is entitled to their viewpoint. Tim and Scruff, you're looking at it differently. I'm not going to argue with you about it.

    However, I do feel that Zero has little to no experience at communicating with the police and that the officer took advantage of that. The tips I have given have actually worked for me over the years. Size up the situation and see if you can diffuse it down to a verbal warning by just being reasonable. But again, never admit that you infringed.

    Often a cop will have decided in the first 30 seconds whether or not he's going to write you a ticket. Others can't be bothered with the paperwork especially if the alleged offence is minor. The longer you can talk things over....maybe even just quote your driver's licence number......the more the possibility the officer will snap his notebook shut and say, "It's just a warning"

    One thing that is not mentioned here....you should stop at the amber light: "if it is safe to do so".

    Now, in this case, Zero said a car was tailgating him and he believes it was the cop. It would have been unsafe to brake abruptly.

    When I was obtaining my Heavy Vehicle licence, the instructor said that when you reach the third arrow painted on the road, you are committed to the intersection. I've always remembered that.

    Also, last I heard, they have to track your speed for 300 metres to settle on a reading. We still don't know how the 59 came into being here. It's possible the cop just guessed it.

    Anyway, this isn't a matter I would have meekly accepted.
     
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