Tim W anyway I can get in touch with you other than this thread. I also am having issues with this business
VIC Refund for Change of Mind Under Australian Consumer Law?
- Thread starter Maxi
- Start date
Tim I also would like to know if it is possible to contact you off-site, as I am having problems with this seminar business too and would like to compare notes and details with any others unfortunate to have had "difficulties" with them now, or in the past.
I am particularly interested to find out if anyone else has received one of their emails threatening legal action against them, and quoting information about the CIV 2549 case in the Perth Supreme Court as a warning to them that they may suffer the same kind of legal situation.
My situation has escalated and I refuse to be settling out of court like others have done as I consider the whole situation to be unethical.
You cannot get in trouble simply from not having money in your account for them to take, or changing your bank account.
**You have the right to change your bank account**
*Having money available or not available in X account that they expect to withdraw from is an entirely different subject to the question of weather or not you have to pay for the seminar*
**You have the right to change your bank account**
*Having money available or not available in X account that they expect to withdraw from is an entirely different subject to the question of weather or not you have to pay for the seminar*
Hi there - I went to one of the MJB seminars and was at a really low point in my life, and stupidly signed up to do their course ad paid a $900 deposit. Once the hype died down the next day I contacted them and asked to cancel my involvement which they said was not possible. I closed down my bank account immediately and have ignored all their bullying and harassment to pay the remainder of the course that I never even attended.
Fast forward to nearly 2 years later and I receive a voicemail that legal action is going to be filed and a warrant for my arrest!!! I am in shock that they would have the audacity to do this. How did you settle out of court? I would appreciate your help as I don't want to pay them another cent but also don't want a criminal conviction or any jail time or whatever the possible outcomes may be. Your help would be appreciated.
Thaks you
Can I ask what happened with your situation?? I am like you and refuse to give these bastards any more money as they already got $900 out of my pocket when I was in a vulnerable state.
I want to get all the people together and perhaps take this to a current affair or get another article written about how dodgy and unethical they are. I am tired of people who claim to care about you, take advantage and harass you for money.
Could you please send this to me as I tried to click on the link you provided below and it does not exist anymore.
This post is for all members who are still seeking help regarding the same or a similar issue as raised in the original post from 2015.
It seems that this thread has been resurrected a couple of times now due to several people having the same or similar issue as the OP. In order to obtain the best possible advice on this forum, I'd like to clarify a couple of things, and also ask that anyone seeking advice clarify some points regarding their individual circumstances as well (we'll get to that later).
First, it's important that everyone understand the nature of the business here. Businesses of this type generally conduct seminars on a first come, first served basis, and usually at third party venues. This means that there is a limit on capacity and if that limit is reached, then clients would have to either wait for the next scheduled seminar, or one or more additional dates would need to be booked. There are therefore most likely considerable costs involved, such as venue hire fees and paying for the services of the venue staff. These types of expenses are also commonly found in the entertainment industry - and I can tell you from personal experience that you can not put on a concert for free, whether be at the local pub or the MCG.
With seminars, if enough people cancel, you could easily end up with the situation where you have more dates booked than what you would actually need if the earliest seminars were at capacity. The operator could therefore find themselves in the same situation as you - wanting to cancel a booking, but can't do so without incurring a loss. For this reason, the operator does have the right to charge a deposit and keep that deposit if you cancel. So it's important that everyone not only understands that, but accepts it.
So with that understanding, let's look back to the OP's original complaint from 2015. Does the operator have the right to charge the full amount if you cancel before the seminar even begins? Well this depends on many things, including what information you were given or had access to; and what you agreed to. The issue that the OP had, was that they signed up over the phone and were not told that they would be charged the full amount if they cancelled. This is not just a matter of unfair contract terms under the ACL, but also an issue under basic contract law.
In short, a contract can only be valid if all parties to the contract have an opportunity to understand the terms and conditions before entering into the contract. This is straight forward "Contacts 101" so to speak. But note the word "opportunity". There are some things that this does and does not include.
So basically, if the operator cancels, they will refund but are not liable for any loss to the customer; but if the customer cancels, they not only have to pay the full amount, but the operator can claim additional amounts on top of that. There are other questionable terms as well. You can find the full terms and conditions here (captured 19 Nov 2018): Terms & Conditions - MJB Seminars
There is also the question of whether or not a business of this type is required to provide any kind of "cooling off" period. I don't know about this, but I am sure that there would be other members that can provide some insight in this regard.
Finally, I'd like to ask that anyone who does have a problem with this operator, to provide some details in regard to your own circumstances so that you can get the best help possible - particularly the following:
Clarifying the above points will greatly assist the members in helping you.
I am not a lawyer, but there are many members who are that can help. Considering that several people have now raised the same issue, I believe that it would benefit everyone if you are all on the same page - and that is the purpose of this post.
I'd like to finish by asking that everyone refrain from using words such as "scam" and "crooks". Such claims are not really helpful and could be in breach of the forum's rules.
Thank you.
It seems that this thread has been resurrected a couple of times now due to several people having the same or similar issue as the OP. In order to obtain the best possible advice on this forum, I'd like to clarify a couple of things, and also ask that anyone seeking advice clarify some points regarding their individual circumstances as well (we'll get to that later).
First, it's important that everyone understand the nature of the business here. Businesses of this type generally conduct seminars on a first come, first served basis, and usually at third party venues. This means that there is a limit on capacity and if that limit is reached, then clients would have to either wait for the next scheduled seminar, or one or more additional dates would need to be booked. There are therefore most likely considerable costs involved, such as venue hire fees and paying for the services of the venue staff. These types of expenses are also commonly found in the entertainment industry - and I can tell you from personal experience that you can not put on a concert for free, whether be at the local pub or the MCG.
With seminars, if enough people cancel, you could easily end up with the situation where you have more dates booked than what you would actually need if the earliest seminars were at capacity. The operator could therefore find themselves in the same situation as you - wanting to cancel a booking, but can't do so without incurring a loss. For this reason, the operator does have the right to charge a deposit and keep that deposit if you cancel. So it's important that everyone not only understands that, but accepts it.
So with that understanding, let's look back to the OP's original complaint from 2015. Does the operator have the right to charge the full amount if you cancel before the seminar even begins? Well this depends on many things, including what information you were given or had access to; and what you agreed to. The issue that the OP had, was that they signed up over the phone and were not told that they would be charged the full amount if they cancelled. This is not just a matter of unfair contract terms under the ACL, but also an issue under basic contract law.
In short, a contract can only be valid if all parties to the contract have an opportunity to understand the terms and conditions before entering into the contract. This is straight forward "Contacts 101" so to speak. But note the word "opportunity". There are some things that this does and does not include.
- It does NOT mean that a business can just place the terms on some obscure page on the internet and claim at a later date that the terms were or are "publicly available". If a customer signs up over the phone, then the terms must be explained during that call. A good retailer will do this, then ask "Do you agree to the terms as I have explained them to you?" The call is usually recorded so that there is physical evidence of a contract. At the very least, there must be a clear understanding of how the terms can be accessed - which could be via an internet address, mail, email, or some other means. In that case, the contract would not be enforceable until the customer has had an opportunity to access the terms.
- If the terms have been made available and the customer has been made aware of how to access the terms, then it is the sole responsibility of the customer to read them. In short, if you don't read the terms, you may not have grounds to challenge them, depending on what the nature of your challenge is. This is particularly true online. With that said however, the terms do need to be reasonably and readily accessible, which simply means easy to find and accessible before any commitment is made (before "checkout" for example). In other words, you can't charge money and then display the terms after the fact; and you can't bury the terms in such a way that they are unreasonably difficult to locate for the "average user".
- If the above requirements have been met, then if you continue, the terms are binding regardless of whether or not you read them, or whether or not you understood them. In other words, once you've had the "opportunity" to understand the terms, you are agreeing to those terms if you continue with the transaction or process. Your continuation is "implied consent".
So basically, if the operator cancels, they will refund but are not liable for any loss to the customer; but if the customer cancels, they not only have to pay the full amount, but the operator can claim additional amounts on top of that. There are other questionable terms as well. You can find the full terms and conditions here (captured 19 Nov 2018): Terms & Conditions - MJB Seminars
There is also the question of whether or not a business of this type is required to provide any kind of "cooling off" period. I don't know about this, but I am sure that there would be other members that can provide some insight in this regard.
Finally, I'd like to ask that anyone who does have a problem with this operator, to provide some details in regard to your own circumstances so that you can get the best help possible - particularly the following:
1. Did you sign up over the phone or online?
2. If you signed up over the phone,
4. How long after signing up did you cancel, and how long was this before the scheduled date of the seminar?
5. Are you disputing the company keeping a deposit, or are you disputing the company charging the full amount?
2. If you signed up over the phone,
(a) were the terms explained to you? or
(b) were you told how to access the terms? or
(c) neither.
3. If you signed up online, did you find the terms and conditions and did you read them?(b) were you told how to access the terms? or
(c) neither.
4. How long after signing up did you cancel, and how long was this before the scheduled date of the seminar?
5. Are you disputing the company keeping a deposit, or are you disputing the company charging the full amount?
Clarifying the above points will greatly assist the members in helping you.
I am not a lawyer, but there are many members who are that can help. Considering that several people have now raised the same issue, I believe that it would benefit everyone if you are all on the same page - and that is the purpose of this post.
I'd like to finish by asking that everyone refrain from using words such as "scam" and "crooks". Such claims are not really helpful and could be in breach of the forum's rules.
Thank you.
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