WA Family Court - Minimum Age of Child for Overnight Stays?

[Becboo]

As a guide, what would be the minimum age for a family court to grant overnight stays of a child with the father?

I can't locate any guidelines or legal information. I also might add the the father is a self-admitted alcoholic and is not in recovery. There are incidents of Domestic Violence (police attended), but no charges.

 

[AllForHer]

There's nothing that stops the Court from granting overnight stays from birth. What it comes down to is, what's in the best interests of the child?

So I can provide more insight, can you share how old the child is? Were you and dad living together when the child was born? How long was the relationship?

 

[sammy01]

You are confusing matters. Alcoholism - might be a factor. DV without charges - irrelevant.

Google Jen McIntosh but be careful what you read. Lots of people like to mis-quote her. My version - primary carers quote the bit where she recommends 'no overnight care' but they fail to read on. 'No overnight care in the first year or so of life.'

Anyways - Jen McIntosh's research is often referred to by family report writers when making their recommendations.

I had an AVO against me. My ex would tell you that I am the devil incarnate. Worst father of the year award 3 years running. I started having my youngest bloke for a night a week from about 11 months, 2 nights a week from about 18 months, 3 nights a week from about 2 years and 5 nights a week from the time he was 3.

Now we never went to court and I won't go into the details here of how I managed that - but I don't see it as unreasonable. What was unreasonable was that I had to agree to a pretty unfair property settlement to buy extra time with the kids..

 

[Becboo]

you are confusing matters - Alcoholism - might be a factor. DV without charges - IRRELEVANT...

Google Jen McIntosh BUT be careful what you read - lots of people like to mis-quote her.... MY VERSION - primary carers quote the bit where she recommends 'no overnight care' BUT they fail to read on.... 'no overnight care in the first year or so of life.'

Anyways - Jen McIntosh's research is often referred to by family report writers when making their recommendations.

U'm - I had an avo against me - my ex would tell ya that I am the devil incarnate. Worst father of the year award 3 years running. I started having my youngest bloke for a night a week from about 11 months - 2 nights a week from about 18 months - 3 nights a week from about 2 years and 5 nights a week from the time he was 3.

Now we never went to court and I wont go into the details here of how I managed that - BUT I don't see it as unreasonable. What was unreasonable was that I had to agree to a pretty unfair property settlement to BUY extra time with the kids..

There's nothing that stops the Court from granting overnight stays from birth. What it comes down to is, what's in the best interests of the child?

So I can provide more insight, can you share how old the child is? Were you and dad living together when the child was born? How long was the relationship?

Our son has just turned 1. De facto relationship over 6 years until July this year. He moved into a rental property.

 

[Becboo]

Hi Sammy01,

Firstly, I'm sorry that your ex would say such harsh things about you. Sometimes when we see people at their worst, that memory stays with you until time passes and you can remember the good times. If you've ever lost someone you love to cancer, you will understand what I mean.

I would not ever say hateful things about my former partner in a million years, however, I can't dismiss the fact his behaviour has given me reason to be concerned. The incident that resulted in the police being called was because my ex decided to drink whilst caring for our 1 month old son.

When he could not be settled he lost his temper punched/destroyed property around our home. He did not hurt our son but he can't manage his anger. My ex loves his son and I do not want to ever stop them spending time together.

If he didn't move so far away he would be welcome to visit him daily. I am just curious as to what a good age for overnight visits would be. We are working together to put measures in place to allay my concerns but I also need to be mindful about the repercussions that could happen to me if an incident was to occur and I agreed to overnight care prematurely.

I've read lots of your comments on this forum and I applaud you for your commitment to helping dads who are not getting a fair outcome when it comes to their children. I've come across my fair share of women who lack objectiveness and emotional intelligence when looking at whats best for their children and at the same time there are some fathers need to man up too.

 

[AllForHer]

So, dad has already spent overnights with the child, since you lived together when the child was born and for some months thereafter, correct?

 

[Becboo]

Yes, he has but only ever supervised never by himself

 

[sammy01]

No worries - and I stick by my comments.

And more importantly - I think it good help. Oh and another reason for you to consider is this: It is pretty easy to formulate the argument that the mother is using / controlling, etc. and is limiting the time the child spends with dad as a means of control. Now that ain't an argument that you want to be confronted with in court. Now I am not saying that is what is happening, but it kind of sort appears that way and as such it is the first argument a solicitor would jump at if given the chance.

So how far away does dad live? What sorta arrangements does he want? I'd encourage you to find compromises. So let me ask you - What sort of arrangements do you want?

Two more thoughts - I don't have particularly fond memories of my youngest guy's first year of life. Me and the ex broke up - AVO's court mediation property asset division. It made it bloody hard for either of us to focus on the nurturing thing.

Final thought - do everything you can to make it work.

Story time - My ex was out partying within a few months of baby. Sometimes not home until after midnight. So I did my share of parenting - all of a sudden, I'm being labelled an alcoholic and violent and not seeing the kids at all. Once I started seeing the kids and having overnights I honestly believe the ex was doing everything she could to sabotage it all. Really, really juvenile stuff. It served no purpose but to cause more hostility...

Oops one more thought - what is wrong with letting him have the kid for a night a week? 5pm till 9am?

Seriously - the whole nappy / bathing / feeding/ nurturing night thing really is what parenting is all about - share the love.

 

[AllForHer]

Forgive me, but do you care for the child unsupervised?

I don't mean to state the obvious here, but you're not talking about overnight time commencing. You're talking about it continuing, and at one year of age, it's fairly standard for a child to spend overnight time with each parent, even if it's just one or two nights a week...

 

[sammy01]

Ok - so, this isn't the court test, like I said - look up Jen Mcintosh for that.

But here is the common man test. My mum had 5 kids, taught primary school for 40 years, never a complaint. Let's pretend she is your mum. Would you leave your kid with that person? I would...

OK, so the kid is ready to spend 24 hours or maybe 18 hours away from mum, true? So my thinking goes like this - if the kid is ready to spend an overnight period away from mum, then it is without a doubt in their best interest to spend a night with dad and a night a week seems ok.

So - some crazy thinking - doctor once told me that babies are not like porcelain dolls. Porcelain dolls are easy to break... Next- you have some maternal concerns, that is natural, but you have not said that your ex is Hannibal Lecter. Just a bloke - yep has some issues - but he would be mad to stuff it all up by leaving the kid so he can go to the pub....

You seem reasonable - you've asked about recommendations, guidelines, etc., so I don't think you're opposed to overnights.Just wanna get some thoughts, etc... My thoughts - why not give it a go?

More random rants: my ex really enjoyed it when the little fella cried when he was coming with me. Actually, she was smug. It will happen, but it didn't take long before the little fella was grasping at me and crying - not so smug then. Realise that it will come with some issues - look for solutions rather than making the issues reasons / justifications for this or that...

So how to help to make it work - offer advice, provide info about food. Do everything you can. Why? Well, it is good parenting, but do it all via email. So if it falls apart, you have evidence that you tried your best. My ex did none of that, but she wanted me to tell her everything, even weighing nappies. She provided me with evidence that she was un-helpful and frankly crazy.

So on that front, back in the day when I still lived with my ex, she went out partying - left me with a 6 month old baby and some expressed milk. I had the idea when the little guy was unsettled and crying. What I did was wrap him in his mum's pyjamas. It helped settle him, but when I asked for something similar after we separated, she tried to use that to prove that I'm crazy...

Just so you know - I'm not crazy.