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VIC Family Law - Hearing to Revoke Intervention Order - Thoughts?

Discussion in 'Family Law Forum' started by kimbapuppy, 17 January 2016.

  1. kimbapuppy

    kimbapuppy Well-Known Member

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    2 months into the IVO or Intervention Order, it was reduced to a limited Order and my family has been living together since until 7 months later. The Order was causing significant strain in my marriage that I applied to revoke the order as the Respondent.

    The police initially took out the IVO or Intervention Order on behalf of the wife and on the night of the incident, even though we both called the police, I was not interviewed. About 80% on the police report on the Safety Record is incorrect.

    When I was preparing for my own case as I didn't want to get a solicitor as I did not want to intimidate the wife, I subpoenaed the Triple 0 calls logs and uncovered evidences that my wife's brother who is a Protective Services Officer (falls under the police) actually lied to the police in those calls, and also the police in attendance. Basically, he lied to the police to frame me as a violent person (which I am not) about 3 weeks prior to the issuing of the safety notice. During this period, he called the police twice and consulted other police members including his supervisor.

    I was startled that the police in the local nearby police station knew about my family dispute prior to the issuing of the Safety Notice. 4 days prior to the incident, the PSO assaulted me in front of my 5-year-old daughter and I did not provoke him (and I have a video recording as well). I already lodged a complaint to the Police Professional Conduct Unit but being a Respondent, no action was taken and no disciplinary action was taken.

    Questions:

    1) Is it an offence for a police member (PSO in particularly) to lie to the Police? Is there a difference if the member was off-duty?

    2) What other police information can I get the Magistrate Court to subpoena that may uncover further evidence?

    Can I subpoena the calls made to the police during the despatch? What about interview notes?

    3) Any recommendations on solicitors (as the contested hearing was adjourned that I am not able to present evidence without a legal representation). The magistrate made an order for me to get legal representation in front of my now ex-wife.

    4) Any other considerations under Family Law in the preparation for my case?
     
  2. JS79

    JS79 Well-Known Member

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    You can always try subpoena the police file - that would give you some more information. If you FOI it - they will delete material.
    I would strongly suggest that you obtain legal advice in your situation - contact a local family lawyer.
    See
    Get Connected with the Right Lawyer for You to be connected to a local family lawyer.
     
  3. sammy01

    sammy01 Well-Known Member

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    I reckon you're flogging a dead horse. Waste of time and money trying to fight it. Now just checking, are you still living with her? You referred to her as your 'ex wife'. If you're no longer living with her, I reckon it ain't a bad idea to accept the terms of the avo without admission.

    Look, even if you're still living with her and you intend to try and save the marriage, learn from the experience. If she is willing to apply to have the terms of the IVO revoked or have it withdrawn, then that could work.

    As far as the complaint to the police professional Conduct Unit, I think you made a mistake. You should have just gone to the cops with the intention of having him charged with assault. Because he is a copper, the assault charge, if it stuck, would have automatically initiated an investigation from the conduct unit....
     
  4. kimbapuppy

    kimbapuppy Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the information guys.

    We have since separated a week before the contested hearing. Even so, the hearing had to be adjourned because the police prosecution thought it was a mention hearing even though I called them up a week prior to the hearing to let them know that it is a contested hearing.

    I brought the PSO assault to the attention of the police to report the incident formally but the Sergeant escalated straight to the Police Conduct Unit. There is camaraderie amongst the police which is great but they are harbouring a member of the police force who is dishonest and has lied to their own to implicate me. A few bad eggs in the police force taints the overall image of the police.

    I am also reading between the lines and also with other solicitors that I have spoken to, that it is indeed flogging a dead horse. I do appreciate the honesty here.

    The police say that the IVO is a civil matter and doesn't impact on employment. This is not true. Recruitment into the police force automatically rules out any candidates with a history of IVO in the last 5 years. This is one example I am aware of. To seek an exemption, the Respondent must apply for a firearm licence. The legislation is just ridiculous, including the fact that I am not able to represent myself in court to provide evidence to proof my innocence (and I had no intention to cross-examine the Protectant who will lie under oath anyway).

    PS. Apparently, the police confirmed that it is not an offence for the public to lie to the police. I guess our legislations are engrained being a convict colony.
     
  5. sammy01

    sammy01 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, let's look at this from a different perspective.

    Accept AVO without admission. Too easy. Or spend a small fortune on solicitor's trying to defend it. Now when you go see a solicitor, can you check something for me? My understanding in NSW is that if you accept without admission, then that has some impact on employment, but really only the cops. It also sucks if you have a gun licence and can cause issues there, but apart from that, nothing much.

    But if you contest it and lose, then it is a criminal conviction. So in my case, I'm a teacher and the ex had the kids as protected, so if I contested it and lost I would have a conviction that involved children and that would have caused me to lose my job. Ouch.

    Oh, and the threshold is 'the grounds of probability' not beyond reasonable doubt. WTF?

    So if you're not planning on being a copper, then really, why else would it matter as far as employment?

    So the advice I got was to accept the AVO without admission and save my money for the big fight, which is family law. Good advice - I could have spent thousands of dollars defending the AVO. I might have won, I might not, but I would not have had the money to fight in family law to get access to the kids and that is all that matters to me...
     
  6. kimbapuppy

    kimbapuppy Well-Known Member

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    Not sure about NSW as I am in VIC. This link states the automatic disqualification in applying for the police.
    http://www.policecareer.vic.gov.au/websites/victoriapolice/userdocuments/120214Prior History Guidelines.pdf

    Although not stated, I still believe having an IVO (regardless whether it is accepted without admission) will have an impact on future employability especially in public figures such as mayor, senators, politicians and prime ministers - the opposition is likely to dig such dirt up and then there is no choice to resign your post if you did get there in the first place.

    When the police look you up in their database, it will say you have an IVO record. It does not say you accepted it without admission. As I was not interviewed by the police on the incident, I asked them to attach an Affidavit with the Safety Notice that outlines the information in the police report that is incorrect with factual and correct information. The police just see that there is a record of IVO against this person and, therefore, treats this person as the bad guy.

    This applies in court as well. It is also interesting to note that as the Respondent, I tried to lodge subpoena forms at the Magistrate Court and was told I couldn't without legal representation. I consulted solicitors and they said I don't need legal representation to be able to lodge the subpoena forms. I brought my daughter along (I know it is not safe) and they must have thought I was the Protectant and I was allowed to lodge the subpoena forms.

    Good luck with the big fight. Do you think the IVO record impacted negatively on your kids custody and, therefore, settlement?
    That is why I am making a big deal out of it because I think it will.
     
  7. sammy01

    sammy01 Well-Known Member

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    Look, if you're planning on going into politics, then the damage to your reputation is already done, even if you defend and win. Yep, I know that sucks, but you will be branded with the same brush, you had an avo taken against you. The fact that it was not substantiated doesn't matter in the court of public opinion.

    Yes, the avo made things hard for the first year until it expired. Yes, it did give her an initial head start in sorting out stuff like child access and assets, after all. She was living in the house but I was the only one working, so the only one paying the mortgage... but nope, I don't think it impacted on the child access when we finally got consent orders but that is also because I think I played the game well.

    Where I got screwed over was:

    1. She got legal aid and I had to pay for a solicitor.

    2. She got a bigger chunk of the assets because she is unemployed and was the primary carer of 3 very young kids.

    But for the long term, accepting the AVO gave me time and energy to focus on the family law stuff and 4 years on she has actually left and the kids live with me. I'm happy.
     
  8. kimbapuppy

    kimbapuppy Well-Known Member

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    I'm glad things finally worked out well for you and justice is finally served. Any tips you can share on how to play the game well? =o)
     
  9. sammy01

    sammy01 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, so I've got 3 simple tips.

    1. Work out what you want as far as child access. 50/50 is possible but accepting 5 or 6 a fortnight is better than spending thousands of dollars in court.

    2. Be nice / reasonable and fair. Even if she isn't. Remember you are a parent. The way you choose to live dictates the sort of parent you are, even when the kids are not watching. Do you want them to lie when they are older, or do you want them to have integrity? Well you do the same.

    3. Be strategic - you are about to enter a stupid game of chess. Be prepared to lose a battle or two for the sake of the bigger picture. It is much better to try and stay on friendly terms with the ex.

    Oops, I've got 4 tips.

    Final tip - when the time comes, ignore rule 2.

    So for example, my ex tried to rort Centrelink and me for more child support / family tax benefit. I found out that her rort wasn't gonna work. I told her I would not agree to participate and that it wasn't gonna work anyways. She told me where to go (again). So when she got caught and had to pay back the money to me and Centrelink, I had the option of just cancelling the debt to me. No way.
     

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