NSW Family Law - Clarification on Supervisory Role?

[livesonhold]

I am the Paternal Grandmother and have been court ordered under family law to be the supervisor of the children changeover to the mother, my son's 2 sons and stepdaughter (2 x changeover days).

I have read the legal description of the supervisor's role which appears to be very basic, i.e. collect children from the appointed place from the mother, monitor the visit with the father in the children's best interest (I have no issues here) and return the children to the mother at the appointed place. This is a reintroduction between Father/Paternal family and children as the mother abducted the children from him/us for 9 months when the youngest was less than 6 months old. The mother refuses to engage in any form of communication with my son. This would apply to me too, but the Court ordered otherwise.

My question is :

Can there be normal communication in front of the children between myself, the Supervisor, (bearing in mind I am asking only questions related to the children) with the mother, sort of questions (NB usually only 1 questions) such as any concerns, illnesses, ie food issues/allergies have they eaten recently, are they tired?

The mother (my ex DIL) says in a somewhat aggressive manner "Do not speak to me in front of the children! Stop doing this!"

One of my questions on drop-off was related to looking into soccer as a winter sport for the 4-year-old has he loves kicking around a ball, could we have her thoughts on this? I have previously tried to engage on issues I feel she should know on drop off such as they are going really good with swimming lessons, or they were still clearly unwell, had a fever or didn't eat much. I am ignored totally and she marches off or I get "Do not speak to me in front of the children! Stop doing this!"

The children are seeing this and feeling it emotionally. BTW all questions are initiated by my son, not myself.

We are very confused as she is clearly not wanting to communicate, with either me, the Grandmother/ Supervisor, and certainly not my son. This is evident to the Court and recently appointed ICL. I don't know if its a rule the ex-DIL is trying to put in place in our changeovers of the children, or is it a legal rule that no communication between the adults should exist on changeover?

The ICL has told her lawyer she has to start engaging with my son. They suggested an APP that can be downloaded. A family report is happening early July, so a number of months to go putting up with this behaviour. Do I just text and ignore her in person which is what she wants, (is this not showing the children a problem exists between us and still makes for a tense handover to the children), or do I remain a happy communicative person in front of the children and say "Hi" to her and engage about the children's issues.

She did try to get me taken out of the equation as Supervisor but the Judge wasn't going to change orders currently in place.

 

[Tremaine]

It's not a legal rule that communication is not to happen between the parents at changeover, but I think it's best for the kids that you compromise if the current arrangement isn't working for one of the parties. If mum's getting riled up because you're talking to her at changeovers, the best course of action right now is to just stop talking to her at changeovers. Whatever you want to show the kids about there being no problems between you is completely undone if mum is hissing at you to stop speaking to her at changeovers, yes?

So, what other options are there for communication between the parents?

You said she would prefer to use text messages and not talk at changeovers? Try that. Minimising exposure to conflict should be top priority, even above the farce of 'showing the kids there's no problems between the parents', and text messages are a good option for keeping the kids away from that exposure. Another option is e-mail, or an app, or if she's really resistent, e-mail through her solicitor. Written is better than verbal because a) it keeps a record of events and b) it is much better for keeping the emotional impact to a minimum so you can just focus on the issues at hand. Some guidelines that we found helpful:

• Communicate as you would with a business partner. Keep it short, simple and focused on the issue at hand.
• Leave emotion out of your communications, even if she doesn't. That means only responding to the subject matter, not the criticism or allegations or feelings that may appear in communications from the other party.
• Communicate only when necessary. X had a fever? Necessary communication - 'Hi, X had a fever overnight and has been coughing the past two nights so I've taken her to Dr Y and Clinic Z, who prescribed a course of antibiotics (3ml twice a day for five days). She has had her first dose this morning and I have put the rest in her bag to take to your house.' Finding out if X is tired? Unnecessary communication - just observe X and decide for yourself.

It might feel like mum is calling the shots here, but what you're doing is showing the court that you want to cooperate and you are willing to compromise to improve things for the benefit of the kids. There's two ways it can go - mum will either comply and things will get better, or mum will keep being inflexible and hostile and the court's patience for it will run thin. Either way, there's no real consequence to the children here (unless of course everyone just remains at the current stalemate and the kids keep having to deal with changeovers where mummy and nanna always fight).

 

[Atticus]

Very sad for the kids...

You could just continue to give polite hellos and goodbyes. Not much you can do about being ignored for doing so but the children will decide in their own minds what to make of it, no need to discuss her lack of response with them..Fairly sure I know who they would consider the bigger person.

As for more important matters that actually do require some communication, have you considered a communications book?... your questions can be written in the book which she takes with her on pickup and HOPEFULLY, is returned with an answer, and perhaps questions of her own at next drop off. Supervision centers use this kind of method for parents to communicate.. If she refuses to even use that method then just let the family report writer and ICL make of it what they will. Certainly would be a negative for her

 

[sammy01]

Not Much you can do... I am assuming these are interim orders? Clearly mum has no intent on co-parenting. I'd suggest you go to change overs, and do nothing but be politie.
Psychological advice, not legal adice.... be prepared, have a script.... So let me give you an example of how this used to play out in my world.
ME - Hi how are you?
HER - Get stuffed.
Me - Oh good, thank's for that, is there anything i need to know about what the kids are doing.
HER - Don't talk to me.
Me - Ok thanks, I'll keep that in mind. Have a great day. see you tomorrow
HER - fcuk off.
ME - No worries thanks, bye.

See my ex wanted the argument, she wanted a fight, she wanted to be able to go to the cops and play the victim and try and get out of following the orders... But I gave her nothing and I slowly started to enjoy knowing how much my strategy was getting to her...

No court order is gonna make your ex DIL be reasonable / nice / co-operative. So learn to play the game.... The kids will soon pick up on who is being nice and who is not and so will the courts.

 

[livesonhold]

It's not a legal rule that communication is not to happen between the parents at changeover, but I think it's best for the kids that you compromise if the current arrangement isn't working for one of the parties. If mum's getting riled up because you're talking to her at changeovers, the best course of action right now is to just stop talking to her at changeovers. Whatever you want to show the kids about there being no problems between you is completely undone if mum is hissing at you to stop speaking to her at changeovers, yes?

So, what other options are there for communication between the parents?

You said she would prefer to use text messages and not talk at changeovers? Try that. Minimising exposure to conflict should be top priority, even above the farce of 'showing the kids there's no problems between the parents', and text messages are a good option for keeping the kids away from that exposure. Another option is e-mail, or an app, or if she's really resistent, e-mail through her solicitor. Written is better than verbal because a) it keeps a record of events and b) it is much better for keeping the emotional impact to a minimum so you can just focus on the issues at hand. Some guidelines that we found helpful:

• Communicate as you would with a business partner. Keep it short, simple and focused on the issue at hand.
• Leave emotion out of your communications, even if she doesn't. That means only responding to the subject matter, not the criticism or allegations or feelings that may appear in communications from the other party.
• Communicate only when necessary. X had a fever? Necessary communication - 'Hi, X had a fever overnight and has been coughing the past two nights so I've taken her to Dr Y and Clinic Z, who prescribed a course of antibiotics (3ml twice a day for five days). She has had her first dose this morning and I have put the rest in her bag to take to your house.' Finding out if X is tired? Unnecessary communication - just observe X and decide for yourself.

It might feel like mum is calling the shots here, but what you're doing is showing the court that you want to cooperate and you are willing to compromise to improve things for the benefit of the kids. There's two ways it can go - mum will either comply and things will get better, or mum will keep being inflexible and hostile and the court's patience for it will run thin. Either way, there's no real consequence to the children here (unless of course everyone just remains at the current stalemate and the kids keep having to deal with changeovers where mummy and nanna always fight).

Thank you very much for your response, it is very helpful and I will certainly put into place suggestions as I'm finding it emotionally distressing too.

 

[livesonhold]

Not Much you can do... I am assuming these are interim orders? Clearly mum has no intent on co-parenting. I'd suggest you go to change overs, and do nothing but be politie.
Psychological advice, not legal adice.... be prepared, have a script.... So let me give you an example of how this used to play out in my world.
ME - Hi how are you?
HER - Get stuffed.
Me - Oh good, thank's for that, is there anything i need to know about what the kids are doing.
HER - Don't talk to me.
Me - Ok thanks, I'll keep that in mind. Have a great day. see you tomorrow
HER - fcuk off.
ME - No worries thanks, bye.

See my ex wanted the argument, she wanted a fight, she wanted to be able to go to the cops and play the victim and try and get out of following the orders... But I gave her nothing and I slowly started to enjoy knowing how much my strategy was getting to her...

No court order is gonna make your ex DIL be reasonable / nice / co-operative. So learn to play the game.... The kids will soon pick up on who is being nice and who is not and so will the courts.

This is really helpful and funny on first read, thank you, it helps. Much appreciated advice.

 

[livesonhold]

Very sad for the kids...

You could just continue to give polite hellos and goodbyes. Not much you can do about being ignored for doing so but the children will decide in their own minds what to make of it, no need to discuss her lack of response with them..Fairly sure I know who they would consider the bigger person.

As for more important matters that actually do require some communication, have you considered a communications book?... your questions can be written in the book which she takes with her on pickup and HOPEFULLY, is returned with an answer, and perhaps questions of her own at next drop off. Supervision centers use this kind of method for parents to communicate.. If she refuses to even use that method then just let the family report writer and ICL make of it what they will. Certainly would be a negative for her

Apparently a communications book was suggested by the ICL and rejected immediately by the Mother. Thank you for the suggestion, I wouldn't have thought of it. Much appreciated.