NSW Consent Orders - Chances of Relocation with Daughter?

[Susan88]

@ Susan88. Firstly. These consent orders you keep referring to that you didn't sign. Where they meant to be filed with the court or were they just agreements made through the the lawyers? If the latter, they are agreements only. Lawyers do not have the same authority as the court, consent orders must be filed and stamped.

Secondly. I once assisted a father who was an absolute idiot, to put it bluntly. He had already filed his initiating application before I came onto the scene. His orders were not realistic and he couldn't quite grasp why 50/50 would not be practicable when he worked interstate 3 out of every 5 weeks. His idea was that either his girlfriend, his mother or even his girlfriends mother could have the kids on the weeks he was away. His ex had other ideas and so did the court.

It is very important for children to spend time with other significant people in their life, including maternal and paternal grandparents. However, these people, unless there are safety concerns for the children, should never be a replacement for parents.

How would you feel if you were placed in your ex's position? You seem to be saying that the relationship between your mum and kids is both more important and meaningful to them than spending time with their dad. I would suggest the court may have other ideas about that.

I never said the relationship between my mum & my daughter was more important! I'm annoyed as he agreed to let them have this time together & now that we are going from being able to see them whenever we wanted, to maybe a couple of times a year. I want him to honour that & let them have this holiday together as my little girl has been looking forward to it since we agreed upon it. As for the orders they were consent orders.

 

[Susan88]

yup been hard for me TRUE. I'm a male I had an avo against me. I had to have supervised visits..... BUT My 3 kids live 80% with me.. My youngest was 4 when that started.... Not a bad result... Suggests maybe I've learnt a bit along the way.... But you don't have to take my advice...

Yep I do not know your situation - What I know is the info you have offered in pursuit of advice/ opinions THAT IS WHY YOU POSTED RIGHT? and with the info you posted I provided you with my opinions. Please note another poster took a pretty similar stance to me.... Oh and my stance is pretty similar to your solicitor.. Starting to feel outnumbered?

So just to check your thinking.... You might be making some assumptions. U'm he is wanting time with the kid. He wants to be a dad... You're the one who wont let him see his kid in the holidays....... TRUE???

NOW this is a website where people seek legal opinions from other lay people... My opinion. You do not have to give him the kid in the holidays because you have no legal obligation to do so. BUT down the track he just might have some legally binding court orders that provide him with access and when you have a special occasion and want the kid in attendance with you BUT that time is dictated by the orders as time with dad - expect him to tell you where to go.... When that happens please post here looking for advice on how unfair he is being. Go on I dare ya....

Last thing - yep you're so right - you're either a father / parent or you're not... Right now he appears to want to be a parent. Great make orders for him to have 50/50 shared care. Encourage that...Seriously.... I reckon I'm on a winner here... If you really want to relocate make him step up to the plate. Agree to him having maximum time with the kid.... Go on DARE YA.... WHY? Well if he has 50/50 and half holidays and all that responsibility that comes with it and HE DOES not comply with the orders and does not maintain contact in accordance with the order THEN you have really good grounds to apply to court for relocation.... so I'm keen to hear from anyone else here who reckons there is a problem with my advice.... I reckon the only problem is this... What if he picks the kid up 2 min early and not 1 min late every time. What if he does the homework, what if he showers the kid in his love. What then??? You don't get to relocate, but his kid gets to have a meaningful relationship with dad.... If he does't step up to the plate then you've got a good case

Just to set you straight, I have never withheld her from him. She has gone to his place for half of the last holidays & will continue to spend time with him when she gets home. I sent her for her 2 week holiday this holidays with my parents as it was agreed upon.. She has been looking forward to it since it was agreed upon & once she comes home, only god knows when we will see them again!

I am not a horrible person, I was always encouraging him to spend time with her. When we first split when she was 12 months old, I tried to encourage him to have her every second weekend to have that time with her & was met with "I need to have a life too you know". I would get random calls weeks apart to see her for an hour or so & that would be it. This went on for 4 & a half years.

You can't pick & choose when you want to be a parent. The day that child is born you are a parent, you should act like one! Well, that's my opinion anyway.

 

[MartyK]

They only left today & I'm already having a rough time.

I never said the relationship between my mum & my daughter was more important! Im annoyed as he agreef to let them have this time together & now that we are going from being able to see them whenever we wanted to maybe a coupletimes a year I want him to honour that & let them have this holiday together as my little girl has been looking forward yo it since we agreed upon it. As for the orders they were consent orders.

Your parents only left today, so you and your daughter have been seeing them until, well today! There are 2 weeks of school holidays only. When is dad meant to see her? You want him to honour the agreement? Pot calling the kettle much?

I hope he takes you to court.

Good Luck

 

[sammy01]

While I kind of agree, I think it a bit rough. I think people come here looking for help and opinions. Susan, you're not getting the help / opinions you want. I'm not gonna tell you what you want to hear, but I do think my opinion is worth you thinking about...

So some thoughts. Family gone to QLD - sorry to hear. Can't drop the kid of with grandma anymore if needed. Bugger. Being a single parent is tough. I know I've got 3 little darlings and a full time job, the ex lives 6 hours away. But I think I know someone who will help you. The dad and his new girlfriend. My ex's sister is still local and she is on my speed dial. I hate her and her family but she loves her little nieces and nephew and will help me out when I need it. I'm grateful.

Now as far as relocation goes. I'll give you my thoughts...BTW my ex wanted to move 6 hours away with the kids. She didn't. She left the kids with me. She told me I won't last 6 months. That was nearly 2 years ago...

So firstly - remind us.... how often is he seing the kid? Now it seems he wanted 4 nights? Now you gotta remember that you don't own all the decisions. The fact is the legislation states that a magistrate must at least consider 50/50 shared care. So 4 nights and half holidays is a good compromise that gives you maximum family tax benefit.

But as for relocation goes, well learn to self-represent because it is gonna cost a fortune and I don't fancy your chances. But like I said, I don't know all your details, etc Relocation cases are very very hard to predict. Your best bet is to tell him that you're going and see how he responds. If he says he'll take you to court for an urgent recovery order then you're much better off staying and applying to court to relocate.

Option 2 - Leave - but the kid stays with dad. Simple...

Now as far as the holidays go. You're parents only just left... The school holidays start today. Now like I've mentioned, you need to make a new support base and the dad seems like the obvious option. I reckon you wanna offer him extra time next holidays plus extra time at Christmas or whatever it takes to get him to agree. If he doesn't agree, then go on the holiday on your own and leave the kid with dad.

Look for compromise and realise that with compromise sometimes you win sometimes you don't...

Let us know how you go...

 

[MartyK]

while i kind of agree... i think it a bit rough... I think people come here looking for advice and opinions..

sammy, you offer some very reasoned responses on both this and another forum I have seen you on. You appear to try to remove yourself from your own experiences and are open to other perspectives. Have you ever wondered though why so many lawyers avoid family law or why most family law lawyers don't bother with forums? Or why some will not take on certain clients?

This started off as a "how do I relocate", I'm all for dad seeing his child thread. AllForHer responded, as did I. How quickly the truth began to emerge. Help is one thing. Wanting agreement, opinions or suggestions as to how to remove a parent from a child's life is another. I will always call a spade, just my opinion.

 

[sammy01]

Hey Marty,

Yep I see your point - maybe sometimes folk need a harsh reality check. I definitely do hope that if the original poster relocated without consent that the dad does take legal action. Sadly one of the realities of family law is that some people lose contact with their kids for no other reason than the system and the expense of solicitors, etc.

But I reckon the best we can do is try to bring new perspectives on how to compromise because that is always better than court.

 

[Susan88]

Your parents only left today, so you and your daughter have been seeing them until, well today! There are 2 weeks of school holidays only. When is dad meant to see her? You want him to honour the agreement? Pot calling the kettle much?

I hope he takes you to court.

Good Luck

while i kind of agree... i think it a bit rough... I think people come here looking for advice and opinions. Susan, you're not getting the advice / opinions you want.... I'm not gonna tell you what you want to hear.... BUt I do think my opinion is worth you thinking about...

So some thougths. Family gone to QLD - sorry to hear. Cant drop the kid of with grandma anymore if needed. BUGGER... Being a single parent is tough.. I know I've got 3 little darlings and a full time job, the ex lives 6 hours away.... But I think I know someone who will help you. The dad and his new girlfriend... My ex's sister is still local and she is on my speed dial. I hate her and her family BUT she loves her little nieces and nephew and will help me out when I need it... I'm grateful...

Now as far as relocation goes. I'll give you my thoughts... BTW my ex wanted to move 6 hours away with the kids... She didn't... She left the kids with me... She told me I wont last 6 months... That was nearly 2 years ago..

So firstly - remind us.... how often is he seing the kid? Now it seems he wanted 4 nights? Now you gotta remember that you don't own all the decisions.... The fact is the legislation states that a magistrate MUST at lest consider 50/50 shared care. So 4 nights and half holidays is a good compromise that gives you maximum family tax benefit.

But as for relocation goes, well learn to self represent because it is gonna cost a fortune and I don't fancy your chances. But like i said, I don't know all your details etc Relocation cases are very very hard to predict... Your best bet is to tell him that you're going and see how he responds IF he says he'll take you to court for an urgent recovery order then you're much better off staying and applying to court to relocate.
Option 2 - Leave - BUT the kid stays with dad. Simple...

Now as far as the holidays go. You're parents only just left... The school holidays start today... Now like I've mentioned you need to make a new support base and the dad seems like the obvious option. I reckon you wanna offer him extra time next holidays PLUS extra time at Christmas OR what ever it takes to get him to agree. IF he don't agree then go on the holiday on your own and leave the kid with dad. Look for compromise and realise that with compromise sometimes you win sometimes you don't...
Let us know how you go...

while i kind of agree... i think it a bit rough... I think people come here looking for advice and opinions. Susan, you're not getting the advice / opinions you want.... I'm not gonna tell you what you want to hear.... BUt I do think my opinion is worth you thinking about...

So some thougths. Family gone to QLD - sorry to hear. Cant drop the kid of with grandma anymore if needed. BUGGER... Being a single parent is tough.. I know I've got 3 little darlings and a full time job, the ex lives 6 hours away.... But I think I know someone who will help you. The dad and his new girlfriend... My ex's sister is still local and she is on my speed dial. I hate her and her family BUT she loves her little nieces and nephew and will help me out when I need it... I'm grateful...

Now as far as relocation goes. I'll give you my thoughts... BTW my ex wanted to move 6 hours away with the kids... She didn't... She left the kids with me... She told me I wont last 6 months... That was nearly 2 years ago..

So firstly - remind us.... how often is he seing the kid? Now it seems he wanted 4 nights? Now you gotta remember that you don't own all the decisions.... The fact is the legislation states that a magistrate MUST at lest consider 50/50 shared care. So 4 nights and half holidays is a good compromise that gives you maximum family tax benefit.

But as for relocation goes, well learn to self represent because it is gonna cost a fortune and I don't fancy your chances. But like i said, I don't know all your details etc Relocation cases are very very hard to predict... Your best bet is to tell him that you're going and see how he responds IF he says he'll take you to court for an urgent recovery order then you're much better off staying and applying to court to relocate.
Option 2 - Leave - BUT the kid stays with dad. Simple...

Now as far as the holidays go. You're parents only just left... The school holidays start today... Now like I've mentioned you need to make a new support base and the dad seems like the obvious option. I reckon you wanna offer him extra time next holidays PLUS extra time at Christmas OR what ever it takes to get him to agree. IF he don't agree then go on the holiday on your own and leave the kid with dad. Look for compromise and realise that with compromise sometimes you win sometimes you don't...
Let us know how you go...

My daughter does go to him for his 4 nights a fortnight, half holidays, Christmas holidays with alternate weeks. I don't stop him from seeing her at all. But, this holidays she has gone to spend with my family as it could be Christmas before we see them again.

I have even given him extra time with her, just last weekend actually. She went out to his place on the Friday, then went to him again on the Saturday for another 3 hours. I could have said no, I didn't. I am not unreasonable at all! I have even offered if we can relocate that I will forego child support and pay myself for her to come down to spend all of the school holidays with him (with the exception at Christmas time, we both have time with her during that larger break).

I will not relocate without her. If it turns out that I can't take her with me then so be it. I will have to deal here somehow. I have been told by many people to just pack up & leave... I don't want to do that, I won't do that. I want to try & get through this the best way possible. Sad part is, if he was single & all of this came up & I left he wouldn't even have cared.

I brought it up 2 years ago when my family first considered it after my grandfather passed away. I asked him about it, explaining how close I am to my small family (which he already knew) & he said "yeah you gotta do what you gotta do, not much point sticking around here". Now that a girlfriend is in the picture, it's not on.

 

[sammy01]

So just some thoughts on two things in your post.

1. The child support agency won't allow you to forego child support in return for relocation and they can enforce it by not paying you family tax benefit. Even IF it were written into consent orders they would garnish his wage based on the amount of care he has, etc, etc.

2. Lots of people might have told you just to leave. But it ain't a democracy. My opinion, 'Get consent to go or get court orders allowing you to go'.

My opinion is based on what I've read... I'm not spruking a law firm but the info in the web page below supports my suggestion

How to manage relocation with children after a separation - Marriott Oliver

I was looking for another link that mentions not relocating without consent and that to do so is a bad move.... But I can't find it.

 

[Susan88]

So just some thoughts on two things in your post.

1. The child support agency won't allow you to forego child support in return for relocation and they can enforce it by not paying you family tax benefit. Even IF it were written into consent orders they would garnish his wage based on the amount of care he has, etc, etc.

2. Lots of people might have told you just to leave. But it ain't a democracy. My opinion, 'Get consent to go or get court orders allowing you to go'.

My opinion is based on what I've read... I'm not spruking a law firm but the info in the web page below supports my suggestion

How to manage relocation with children after a separation - Marriott Oliver

I was looking for another link that mentions not relocating without consent and that to do so is a bad move.... But I can't find it.

Yes, I know that it's a bad move, which is one of the reasons I won't do it. If I get to relocate, I want to have done it the right way.

Look, at the end of the day, I want to go about things the right way. I am not denying him access to his child & never have. I just need to try & find the best outcome somehow. My biggest worry is my child & how not having my family around is going to affect her. We are both extremely close to them as that's all we've had until the beginning of this year when dad decided to be in her life.

She has already been struggling terribly at the thought of her grandma being so far away. Hence why I have given her this extra time with her. It's heartbreaking for me to be so far away from them now but it's so much more heartbreaking seeing how much it breaks my little girl's heart. I just don't know what to do anymore.

 

[sammy01]

So if he is as useless as you say, agree to the 4 nights, sign the consent orders. If he continues complying, great. Except you don't get to move. But the kid gets a relationship with their dad.

If he fails to comply, write it down. Text him about it, keep precise records. Then once you have 6 months of him not seeing his kid in accordance with the orders, then get back on here and you just might find you'll get some good opinions on how to get relocation.