SA Chances of ex being granted recovery orders or denied?

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Concernedmum01

Well-Known Member
11 September 2021
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0
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Its not productive, especially regarding medical decisions. Our child needs to see a bunch of specialists and its just been very difficult to put in anything, get referrals and actually get our child booked in as he had refused every place our child had been given an appointment because I didn't ask him before accepting it... like I just want to understand why, if we had been waiting for a long time to get an appointment, and I had provided him with a copy of the referral letter thatvshows on the letter where he has been referred to, and he has accepted that and knows I will get a phone call when they have an available appointment, why am I am suddenly in the wrong for accepting it?

I always try calling and messaging but he does not respond as he is always at work. So I accept, let the receptionist know I may have to change it, let him know I accepted the appointment but the option is there to change it and I am still in the wrong... its medical care... its not choosing a venue for a birthday party. I also receive this in situations where he has been responsible for booking certain appointments near his residence and I have asked the status of it. The conversation goes either 3 ways.

- If the conversation is about appointments - Responds by telling me he has found a Dr and needs to book and I ask who and where so I can add to the calendar and ensure I have funds available to cover half of any private fees and he starts with calling me controlling, checking up on him, being pushy and aggressive, being horrible to him, not respecting him and that when he finds a Dr he will tell me and then cuts contact for a few days. So he found a Dr, won't give me details, cracks a tanty that I asked then says he hadn't found a Dr yet... why... is unnecessary.

- If I have asked when he is getting a repeat of a specific test that was needed that he obtained during his care, he informs me that he won't be carrying it out as he because he didn't think it was necessary and nor did his other. When I express that it was probably necessary and we should take him to get the test given the situation in which it was ordered and that we were waiting to a respiratory specialist as our child has been sick since he was not returned to my care. I get the same treatment. Eg - repeat xray for RSV (the time he took him to ED for respiratory distress and didn't tell me, his reason was it slipped his mind... but he was on messenger having a go at me for not following his instructions of vicks, tank tops and shower steam when I had, and not believing him about asthma, in which i never said I didn't believe him, I had just said we shouldn't jump to conclusions based on my ex having asthma, while there is a chance of course, at the time when a child is young and their immune systems are developing, they catch everything. The time stamps on the discharge paperwork is how I know this and all he had said was he was really sick and I had suggested he take him to the Dr and push for tests and sent his some common viruses that toddlers get frequently and said have a read and if he thought the symptoms were consistent with any of them to seek the tests as it was the only thing I could offer as he wasn't in my care).
 

Concernedmum01

Well-Known Member
11 September 2021
25
0
121
- if the conversation is me addressing an appointment made behind and no one letting me know or asking for my input same reaction. Best example I have of this is a situation in which I had been given a recommendation by an educator at the early learning centre I have our child booked into during my care that our child will not engage with activities, others and the staff 90% of the time, wont remain seated while eating and he may benefit from occupational therapy as he also was (at the time) non verbal and had regressed with his milestones following the extended time with dad. I had been working with the educators on addressing the deficits with an education plan in place designed to address the deficits through play based learning (things like threading beads for fine motor skills and such) and our son wasn't engaging at all and went and just played by himself with a ball. So I take this information to dad, and share I also had concerns about this and thought it would benefit him as he was displaying signs of potentially being on the autism spectrum. He freaked out thinking I had made an appointment, and was trying to label our son, when I had never said and my message had not eluded to that at all. I was just asking his opinion on whether it was something we should explore, he said he would think about it. He then attempted to change the topic onto my other children needing to see a psych each because of my parenting and how neglectful I apparently am according to him (apparently kids having to be home from school due to covid lockdown and school policy of sick children being required to stay home is 1 reason I am neglectful) and their fathers past actions with them in his care, and they desperately needed it because his opinion is they are messed up. I had responded to this by asking the conversation be on the topic of our child, that while I appreciated the concern regarding my other children, that it is something for me and their father to discuss and probably inappropriate to try to bring their mental health into the conversation in the way he did when we were discussing our child and the potential benefit of occupational therapy. He cracked it at me over it, I restated my point, multiple times as he tried to escalate the conversation to further prove that by me excluding him with my other children I was being neglectful. After i kept restating my position attempting to get him to focus on our child he eventually agreed to allow me to get a referral to a paediatrician to talk about maybe getting him into an OT. A few months later our sons my health records had a new document added to the ereferrals for an appointment with a child psychologist for ASD assessment and the date the appointment was requested using a referral I had been told was for an ENT (never saw the referral letter) conveniently was the day after after I had made arrangements with grandma for our child to have a sleep over due to an early morning med school exam... the day of the appointment was the day grandma was meant to look after him but dad asked if he could and I agreed... I called the place the day after to see if I needed to pay anything as it was private and the fees were over $300 for the place and if our child's medicare details were provided as dad doesn't have his own medicare card for him and had refused to take a copy of the details as he was going to get his own but never did (and I wasn't going to crack it over an appointment our child needed anyway, just wanted to pay my half) and they informed me dad did not attend the appointment and I needed a new referral...
 

Concernedmum01

Well-Known Member
11 September 2021
25
0
121
- Or appointments that he had said he had taken our child to but never did and they were never made, same reaction.

Its been 4 months and still waiting for a new appointment for this 1 thing... the rest ive had to resend referrals to different locations at his request because he wasn't happy with the building... same Dr tho.


I understand how it looked like I was twisting things, but the comment made to me about "adult time" was specifically about intimacy, and intimacy frequently with random men. Something that wasn't happening in the first place as I was getting to know my boyfriend at the time. I had just not mentioned all the other correspondence before it or the clarification I had gotten in person. I personally don't party, and I consume alcohol maybe 4 times a year max.
It also came directly after he had a go at me for staying over my boyfriends house before we had entered into a relationship after one of our dates.. our child was in his care when it happened and this was when he attempted not to return our child to my care the first time.


I do have concerns, I don't know whether the injury is intentional or not (Dr records consistent with blunt force), he has been physical with me in the past. Everything is just unnecessarily difficult. A simple statement about how often toddlers get colds even ends in him hurling insults at me and demanding apologies from me and respect.

The extreme action taken in response to all this is concerning as I really have just been following instructions. It can all be requested from the court if they feel necessary

I used the no furniture as a small and minor example of a situation in which the prior substance abuse had effected the family dynamic in a negative way regarding finances and the fact he moved us to cairns and had me convinced we would buy new stuff and I shouldn't use my money for shipping my stuff... all my furniture, everything, gone in 2017 and we had none of our own until 2020 1 place we had air mattresses and a rented couch, 1 place fully furnished. 3 places mattresses on the floor, not even bed sheets... when I tried to buy this stuff... omg... the reaction wasn't worth the hassle as we were 200km out of the city in a small country town by that point. - if I delved into more of the details of every individual thing we would be here forever.

I'm asking about ex parte because somehow everyone who knew us saw what was going on and even tried to pull him up but now support him and I am sitting here confused how and why this is all happening and why instantly go for the most extreme action and act as if he can't contact me while also using the contact between us to get the lawyer to write the letter saying he denies allegations and I haven't returned the child for unjustified reasons and its written as though he is the primary carer and I allowed our child to live with him... like I asked for a change in care arrangements... for stability... for more supervision... for the threats and insults to stop.

I am concerned its all happening for the wrong reasons. I can't find the answers I am looking for anywhere.

Sorry - I know this response to your questions is stupidly and probably unnecessarily long. But context is important in this particular situation.
 

sammy01

Well-Known Member
27 September 2015
4,853
690
2,894
Ok, so firstly, PLEASE try and keep responses brief. WHY well it is a lot of reading and most of it doesn't matter. I honestly didn't read it all. Sorry to come across all English teacher like... But... Can you please look at the post from 12.28pm. It is a huge wall of words. Please use the 'enter' key a bit. It just breaks up the wall of words so when we're reading we don't lose where were up to.... Sorry for sounding critical.

Him having a mate snorting cocaine when you were living with him is irrelevant, so is a whole bunch of stuff you've written... This matters, it isn't just me being rude. Look solicitors are gonna get involved - by being succinct you'll save $. One solicitor put it to me bluntly "I'm your solicitor NOT your counsellor."

Another reason to get good at the succinct thing - SELF PRESERVATION. See my ex used to bombard me with emails or personal attacks at change overs. I learned to live succinct - What I mean is I learned to let it all wash over me.... It was bad for my mental health to stress over all this BS. I learned to only sweat on the important stuff. The rest of it I refused to engage with... I didn't fight and eventually, I learned to not care. My ex meanwhile still picks fights over everything...All that stress has made her look old. No thanks. To be fair, she has gotten a bit better - More on this later...

Now go make a nice cuppa because you're not gonna like the next bit. See - I reckon, maybe, just maybe you write to the ex the way you've written here. Go have a look at some of your emails to him. Go on. I will wait here...
So some suggestions. The intention here is to learn about POSITIVE PARENTING AFTER SEPARATION.
1. Wait 2 hours before you hit send... Read back over the stuff because sometimes your writing gets a bit long winded and confusing. Sometimes emotion gets in the way of logic. Sometimes you write well. Sometimes it is really confusing. I bet he interprets that as you whinging at him or being delusional.

2. Ask yourself does it really need to be sent. I want you to google "parallel parenting". Here read this Your Guide to Parallel Parenting and Whether It’s Right For Your Family | Bestow .

3. Stop being a twit. Hey, guess what. I've been a twit - So trust me I know all about it. So let me give you an example. Don't make appointments during dad's time. Look if you two could stop being twits, then maybe, just maybe co-parenting could work. But right now both of you are twits. IF you make an appointment during his time - He is just gonna interpret that as you bossing him around. And I can kinda understand his perspective. You guys need to learn to get past that. I can't help him, because he isn't posting here. But we can make a start with you.... BTW - I found that after about 2 yrs of me not being a twit, my ex stopped being a twit too (kinda). See it is about relationship dynamics.

So the dynamics of a toxic relationship are bad. If you and him had a good relationship, then you'd probably still be together. The nature of a relationship doesn't change when you separate. He is still the same person and so are you. You still have the same emotions. You need to learn to move on from that... And like I said your first post is a whole lota mud slinging. It isn't productive. Learn to move away from that and focus on the kid. So for example. I have a mate - I have learned heaps from him. He is one cool dude. So for the past 3 yrs he has had his kids 50/50. Actually the eldest is with him 70% of the time. He picks the kids up from school and drops them off at school. He has not spoken to the ex in years. He sends text messages - Dear ex - holidays are coming. These are the dates the kids will be with me...XXX and XXXX. Do you agree. He just doesn't get caught up in the BS.

Shared parenting only works when both parents are committed to putting the baggage away and focus on the kid... That isn't the case here. You are to blame for that as much as the ex. Oh and the kid is 2 FFS. No expert would ever agree to 50/50 with a kid that young. It was dumb to agree to 50/50 to start with. Hey, I get it, i don't doubt you felt pressured, but life is full of pressure, we have to deal with...
And - how far do you guys live from each other? I think you said there is some distance? So what happens when school starts? 50/50 isn't sustainable?

So are you prepared to agree for dad to spend some time with the kid? If yes then I'd suggest you do the following:
I'd suggest you write back to his solicitor. GOLDEN RULE - Keep it under 700 words. Feel free to post here.

So what to do? Write back. Explain succinctly that 50/50 parenting isn't working and that you'd like to do mediation and in the meantime will the ex agree to alternate weekends?
BTW - The ex has no interest in seeing this go to court. His solicitor will tell him that 50/50 is very very rarely ordered by a judge. He won't get 50/50. So it is in his interest to get an agreement out of you. I'd also suggest you request consent orders that stipulate alternate weekends with the time being increased to 4 nights a fortnight in 2 yrs.
But that is enough for you to absorb. I'm off to the beach.
 

Concernedmum01

Well-Known Member
11 September 2021
25
0
121
Ok, so firstly, PLEASE try and keep responses brief. WHY well it is a lot of reading and most of it doesn't matter. I honestly didn't read it all. Sorry to come across all English teacher like... But... Can you please look at the post from 12.28pm. It is a huge wall of words. Please use the 'enter' key a bit. It just breaks up the wall of words so when we're reading we don't lose where were up to.... Sorry for sounding critical.

Him having a mate snorting cocaine when you were living with him is irrelevant, so is a whole bunch of stuff you've written... This matters, it isn't just me being rude. Look solicitors are gonna get involved - by being succinct you'll save $. One solicitor put it to me bluntly "I'm your solicitor NOT your counsellor."

Another reason to get good at the succinct thing - SELF PRESERVATION. See my ex used to bombard me with emails or personal attacks at change overs. I learned to live succinct - What I mean is I learned to let it all wash over me.... It was bad for my mental health to stress over all this BS. I learned to only sweat on the important stuff. The rest of it I refused to engage with... I didn't fight and eventually, I learned to not care. My ex meanwhile still picks fights over everything...All that stress has made her look old. No thanks. To be fair, she has gotten a bit better - More on this later...

Now go make a nice cuppa because you're not gonna like the next bit. See - I reckon, maybe, just maybe you write to the ex the way you've written here. Go have a look at some of your emails to him. Go on. I will wait here...
So some suggestions. The intention here is to learn about POSITIVE PARENTING AFTER SEPARATION.
1. Wait 2 hours before you hit send... Read back over the stuff because sometimes your writing gets a bit long winded and confusing. Sometimes emotion gets in the way of logic. Sometimes you write well. Sometimes it is really confusing. I bet he interprets that as you whinging at him or being delusional.

2. Ask yourself does it really need to be sent. I want you to google "parallel parenting". Here read this Your Guide to Parallel Parenting and Whether It’s Right For Your Family | Bestow .

3. Stop being a twit. Hey, guess what. I've been a twit - So trust me I know all about it. So let me give you an example. Don't make appointments during dad's time. Look if you two could stop being twits, then maybe, just maybe co-parenting could work. But right now both of you are twits. IF you make an appointment during his time - He is just gonna interpret that as you bossing him around. And I can kinda understand his perspective. You guys need to learn to get past that. I can't help him, because he isn't posting here. But we can make a start with you.... BTW - I found that after about 2 yrs of me not being a twit, my ex stopped being a twit too (kinda). See it is about relationship dynamics.

So the dynamics of a toxic relationship are bad. If you and him had a good relationship, then you'd probably still be together. The nature of a relationship doesn't change when you separate. He is still the same person and so are you. You still have the same emotions. You need to learn to move on from that... And like I said your first post is a whole lota mud slinging. It isn't productive. Learn to move away from that and focus on the kid. So for example. I have a mate - I have learned heaps from him. He is one cool dude. So for the past 3 yrs he has had his kids 50/50. Actually the eldest is with him 70% of the time. He picks the kids up from school and drops them off at school. He has not spoken to the ex in years. He sends text messages - Dear ex - holidays are coming. These are the dates the kids will be with me...XXX and XXXX. Do you agree. He just doesn't get caught up in the BS.

Shared parenting only works when both parents are committed to putting the baggage away and focus on the kid... That isn't the case here. You are to blame for that as much as the ex. Oh and the kid is 2 FFS. No expert would ever agree to 50/50 with a kid that young. It was dumb to agree to 50/50 to start with. Hey, I get it, i don't doubt you felt pressured, but life is full of pressure, we have to deal with...
And - how far do you guys live from each other? I think you said there is some distance? So what happens when school starts? 50/50 isn't sustainable?

So are you prepared to agree for dad to spend some time with the kid? If yes then I'd suggest you do the following:
I'd suggest you write back to his solicitor. GOLDEN RULE - Keep it under 700 words. Feel free to post here.

So what to do? Write back. Explain succinctly that 50/50 parenting isn't working and that you'd like to do mediation and in the meantime will the ex agree to alternate weekends?
BTW - The ex has no interest in seeing this go to court. His solicitor will tell him that 50/50 is very very rarely ordered by a judge. He won't get 50/50. So it is in his interest to get an agreement out of you. I'd also suggest you request consent orders that stipulate alternate weekends with the time being increased to 4 nights a fortnight in 2 yrs.
But that is enough for you to absorb. I'm off to the beach.
Sorry, wasnt sure what was or wasn't relevant to my original questions about recovery orders.

So initially I had said care arrangements needed to change, ive said it 4 times now, refused each time. This He went straight to recovery orders threat.

I did respond to his lawyer last week, just stating my position, corrected the mediation and plan arrangements dates, suggested recovery order wasn't in our childs best interest offered to work out consent orders and then a small acknowledgement that if they choose to proceed with the recovery order I understand full disclosure of the circumstances behind me not returning our child is a necessary process and I trust that a decision will be made based on these circumstances... radio silence.

So next I plan on sending a letter requiring signatature upon delivery offering my proposed consent orders I will give them 14 days to either accept or decline, if they accept its already on my computer, just need to print and file etc, if they decline then I will apply for parenting orders.
 

Concernedmum01

Well-Known Member
11 September 2021
25
0
121
Oh and we live almost 1.5 hours away. I just moved closer and it would take 4-5 hours on a busy day with traffic, road works etc. for the full round trip.
He lives the opposite in semi country area and his full round trip would be 3 if he actually did it himself. But grandpa does pick up and drop off and their trip is an hour all round.

School wouldnt work 50/50, it would have to be a private school half way between us and my week he would need to be in out of school hours care to account for picking my other children up. He wouldnt be able to go with his siblings.

He already disagrees with early learning in my care, wants to send child to a antivax kindergarden pretending to be a playgroup and the woman who dreads his hairs house... that is 2 hours away from me...
 

Atticus

Well-Known Member
6 February 2019
1,827
259
2,394
What is the likelihood of him getting granted the recovery orders?

Could he get them ex parte?
Can't comment on likelihood, but as there are no current orders in place either party seeking a recovery order can only do so as part of an initiating application for parenting orders..

From what I have read of your posts, I can't see any need for an ex parte hearing... More likely granted in urgent cases where there is a risk of the parent harming or fleeing with the child.
 

Concernedmum01

Well-Known Member
11 September 2021
25
0
121
Thank you, sorry they are quite long posts. I have been stressing. So far its been 8 days since the date they gave me. Ive heard back from only police so far, he told them that he had no idea how it happened or that it was there until I told him. They grilled him on how it went unnoticed at bath time or nappy change time, he said his parents do all that usually as the child is in their care in his week... so they then went and interviewed his parents. They had no answers either. Originally I had been told by them it didn't happen in their care, but dads saying our child is in their care in his week...

DCP has interviewed both apparently with same answer given to them and they heavily questioned how it went unnoticed and still no one can provide answers. Still awaiting their verdict.

No reply from lawyer from my communication and no contact from dad since 31st and grandma since 24th.

Sending my proposed consent orders to his lawyer tomorrow in an attempt to get them to agree. Been through court having to be lawyer and mum before, not really keen on doing it again.

- child lives with me
- spends time with dad every second weekend from 5pm friday to 12pm sunday (dad starts work at 2 on a sunday from what I know).
I have sole parental responsibility over;
- education current and future;
- medical treatment (except gender reassignment or end of life care/intervention/withdrawal)
- living arrangments

Joint parental responsibility of
- name; and
- religion

- alternating holidays and birthday starting with dads year after orders are signed, mine after.

- if fathers day is not on his weekend, ill drop child to his night before and he drops child home no later than 6 on the day (bc education)

- If mothers day falls in his weekend, no special arrangements, time stays as is (as its just a day to me. And will rarely ever be in his time).

- if he wants our child to attend family events request it at least 48 hours prior, if it doesnt clash with anything then sure.

- no disparaging remarks and communication be respectful

And the goal being to increase time where feasible as our child gets older.

Personally im concerned he would take our child regardless of orders.
 

Concernedmum01

Well-Known Member
11 September 2021
25
0
121
Ok, so firstly, PLEASE try and keep responses brief. WHY well it is a lot of reading and most of it doesn't matter. I honestly didn't read it all. Sorry to come across all English teacher like... But... Can you please look at the post from 12.28pm. It is a huge wall of words. Please use the 'enter' key a bit. It just breaks up the wall of words so when we're reading we don't lose where were up to.... Sorry for sounding critical.

Him having a mate snorting cocaine when you were living with him is irrelevant, so is a whole bunch of stuff you've written... This matters, it isn't just me being rude. Look solicitors are gonna get involved - by being succinct you'll save $. One solicitor put it to me bluntly "I'm your solicitor NOT your counsellor."

Another reason to get good at the succinct thing - SELF PRESERVATION. See my ex used to bombard me with emails or personal attacks at change overs. I learned to live succinct - What I mean is I learned to let it all wash over me.... It was bad for my mental health to stress over all this BS. I learned to only sweat on the important stuff. The rest of it I refused to engage with... I didn't fight and eventually, I learned to not care. My ex meanwhile still picks fights over everything...All that stress has made her look old. No thanks. To be fair, she has gotten a bit better - More on this later...

Now go make a nice cuppa because you're not gonna like the next bit. See - I reckon, maybe, just maybe you write to the ex the way you've written here. Go have a look at some of your emails to him. Go on. I will wait here...
So some suggestions. The intention here is to learn about POSITIVE PARENTING AFTER SEPARATION.
1. Wait 2 hours before you hit send... Read back over the stuff because sometimes your writing gets a bit long winded and confusing. Sometimes emotion gets in the way of logic. Sometimes you write well. Sometimes it is really confusing. I bet he interprets that as you whinging at him or being delusional.

2. Ask yourself does it really need to be sent. I want you to google "parallel parenting". Here read this Your Guide to Parallel Parenting and Whether It’s Right For Your Family | Bestow .

3. Stop being a twit. Hey, guess what. I've been a twit - So trust me I know all about it. So let me give you an example. Don't make appointments during dad's time. Look if you two could stop being twits, then maybe, just maybe co-parenting could work. But right now both of you are twits. IF you make an appointment during his time - He is just gonna interpret that as you bossing him around. And I can kinda understand his perspective. You guys need to learn to get past that. I can't help him, because he isn't posting here. But we can make a start with you.... BTW - I found that after about 2 yrs of me not being a twit, my ex stopped being a twit too (kinda). See it is about relationship dynamics.

So the dynamics of a toxic relationship are bad. If you and him had a good relationship, then you'd probably still be together. The nature of a relationship doesn't change when you separate. He is still the same person and so are you. You still have the same emotions. You need to learn to move on from that... And like I said your first post is a whole lota mud slinging. It isn't productive. Learn to move away from that and focus on the kid. So for example. I have a mate - I have learned heaps from him. He is one cool dude. So for the past 3 yrs he has had his kids 50/50. Actually the eldest is with him 70% of the time. He picks the kids up from school and drops them off at school. He has not spoken to the ex in years. He sends text messages - Dear ex - holidays are coming. These are the dates the kids will be with me...XXX and XXXX. Do you agree. He just doesn't get caught up in the BS.

Shared parenting only works when both parents are committed to putting the baggage away and focus on the kid... That isn't the case here. You are to blame for that as much as the ex. Oh and the kid is 2 FFS. No expert would ever agree to 50/50 with a kid that young. It was dumb to agree to 50/50 to start with. Hey, I get it, i don't doubt you felt pressured, but life is full of pressure, we have to deal with...
And - how far do you guys live from each other? I think you said there is some distance? So what happens when school starts? 50/50 isn't sustainable?

So are you prepared to agree for dad to spend some time with the kid? If yes then I'd suggest you do the following:
I'd suggest you write back to his solicitor. GOLDEN RULE - Keep it under 700 words. Feel free to post here.

So what to do? Write back. Explain succinctly that 50/50 parenting isn't working and that you'd like to do mediation and in the meantime will the ex agree to alternate weekends?
BTW - The ex has no interest in seeing this go to court. His solicitor will tell him that 50/50 is very very rarely ordered by a judge. He won't get 50/50. So it is in his interest to get an agreement out of you. I'd also suggest you request consent orders that stipulate alternate weekends with the time being increased to 4 nights a fortnight in 2 yrs.
But that is enough for you to absorb. I'm off to the beach.
And yeah, he wouldn't budge on the 50/50 in mediation. Its always been either I get nothing or it is 50/50.

I have pretty much have tried the parallel parenting thing, tried google doc, suggested diary, tried app. Nope won't go for it.

I've only ever made appointments in my time for medical. Never his.

I don't bring up this stuff to him. I just mentioned it all here because I thought it may be relevant - kind of glad its not.

I re-read my message to him when I told him I wouldn't return our child. It started with addressing the need for change in care and then what I considered in making my decision. No allegations, just addressing issues pertaining to care/education/parental supervision etc.

I appreciate all you advice! I added what im proposing in the thread.

Will keep It a simple "please present the following proposed consent orders to your client." Give them 14 days.