VIC Subpoena findings - Defended interim hearing

[vwka84]

Hi All

I have a defended interim hearing coming up. I guess I will try to ask for more time with our child who is being withheld from me by the mother on false allegations of violence

The subpoenaed police records and DHHS tells a different story. Where she told the cops who came there were no physical violence and lied to DHHS that I inflicted serious physical damage upon her. Obviously all lies.

How to I tender such findings to the court during interim hearing? Do i file an additional affidavit (I have been told i filed too many affidavit in the past before). Or do I only tender findings during final hearing?

Many thanks

Self-rep Dad

 

[Atticus]

I have a defended interim hearing coming up........ child who is being withheld from me by the mother on false allegations of violence

1) Are you the applicant or respondent?
2) Are the allegations of violence against the mother or the child?
3) Has there been an (affirmative) Notice of risk filed?
4) Are the alleged incidents the SAME incidents as those in the police & other documents?
5) How did you come to subpoena these records? .... Have they been used in a court?

 

[vwka84]

1) I'm the Applicant for FCC parenting matters. but defendant in IVO defence against false allegations of violence. going to contest but delayed due to covid19.
2) Allegations of violence against the mother but mother lied that at times she was holding child and i pushed her. which never happened i swear
3) Notice of risk filed by both of us. Both considered and closed by judge
4) Alleged incidents were in-line with my version of affidavit. Even though she called the cops, cops who came advised i'm actually the AFM (Affected family member). They sighted no violence. She then lied to DHHS child protection that on that night, i strangled and punched her face. Hence, I want to raise this in court that she lied.
5) ICL subpoena-ed the material but i think i prompted her to do some work as I was asking how to subpoena police records

Thanks

 

[vwka84]

Hi All

I have a defended interim hearing coming up. I guess I will try to ask for more time with our child who is being withheld from me by the mother on false allegations of violence

The subpoenaed police records and DHHS tells a different story. Where she told the cops who came there were no physical violence and lied to DHHS that I inflicted serious physical damage upon her. Obviously all lies.

How to I tender such findings to the court during interim hearing? Do i file an additional affidavit (I have been told i filed too many affidavit in the past before). Or do I only tender findings during final hearing?

Many thanks

Self-rep Dad

1) I'm the Applicant for FCC parenting matters. but defendant in IVO defence against false allegations of violence. going to contest but delayed due to covid19.
2) Allegations of violence against the mother but mother lied that at times she was holding child and i pushed her. which never happened i swear
3) Notice of risk filed by both of us. Both considered and closed by judge
4) Alleged incidents were in-line with my version of affidavit. Even though she called the cops, cops who came advised i'm actually the AFM (Affected family member). They sighted no violence. She then lied to DHHS child protection that on that night, i strangled and punched her face. Hence, I want to raise this in court that she lied.
5) ICL subpoena-ed the material but i think i prompted her to do some work as I was asking how to subpoena police records

Thanks

 

[Atticus]

Just addressing the FCCoA proceedings .....

If the judge has considered & closed any concerns/allegations raised in the NOR, then that is a good outcome... Not sure there is much to be gained (with regards interim orders for time spent with child) by these reports...

That said, if these reports are particulars of notes taken & statements made about THE SAME alleged incidents that she then used in supporting affidavits or NOR, AND they clearly contradict those sworn statements, then it may be of value in further proceedings ..... In that event, if they were submitted into evidence the judge can make of the contradiction what ever sh/e will.

If the ICL has subpoenaed this material & you have seen it, then I assume it's already been submitted as evidence by the ICL

I guess I will try to ask for more time with our child

This concerns me a bit ....You need to put a lot of forethought into what you want for interim orders... They will likley be in place until consent or final orders are handed down (may be a looong time) & will form the pattern of care over that whole period

 

[vwka84]

Just addressing the FCCoA proceedings .....

If the judge has considered & closed any concerns/allegations raised in the NOR, then that is a good outcome... Not sure there is much to be gained (with regards interim orders for time spent with child) by these reports...

That said, if these reports are particulars of notes taken & statements made about THE SAME alleged incidents that she then used in supporting affidavits or NOR, AND they clearly contradict those sworn statements, then it may be of value in further proceedings ..... In that event, if they were submitted into evidence the judge can make of the contradiction what ever sh/e will.

If the ICL has subpoenaed this material & you have seen it, then I assume it's already been submitted as evidence by the ICL


This concerns me a bit ....You need to put a lot of forethought into what you want for interim orders... They will likley be in place until consent or final orders are handed down (may be a looong time) & will form the pattern of care over that whole period

Would you then advise that i do not bombard the judge with another affidavit to call out those lies? The ICL that i got was honestly quite lazy and only sends out emails few hours before hearings usually. Are you saying that ICL will submit them as evidence? In what form? Will she call out the discrepancies that might only be apparent because i'm the party who went through it?
When you say further proceedings, is it just the final trial that I can present the subpoena findings? The upcoming one is a "defended interim hearing", hence not sure i can start calling out her lies?

I did applied for Interim Orders. I was primary carer before OP withheld child. OP was rarely home back then and child was with me 24/7. Hence I asked for 4 days a week.
After separation, OP withheld child for months. I have to go through the court process as she refused mediation.
However, judge passed down "reserved judgement" and now said she's reluctant to change the household of the child as might be too "much stress" for the child. Seems like the judge is rewarding alienation behaviour. My interim orders is now under "reserved judgement delivered" and closed unfortunately

ICL only recommended me to have unsupervised visit for 4 hours. Judge gave me 5 hours because i had a super good "supervised report" as I had to do that at the start to resume contact for months. Supervisor said i'm a good dad and child loves me. I'm now giong to ask for overnights of 2 nights a week which i know it's going to be hard to get.

Thanks for replying Atticus

 

[Atticus]

I think you have to weigh up the *possible* advantage of having this evidence submitted ..... If it is submitted by the ICL, that is the best way to go because you are at arms length from it so to speak ...

This is a judge that has already ordered supervised visits only even after finding no risk, you don't want to be adding to any sense of conflict between you & mum.... Always a two edged sword for blokes... Even if you can prove that the other side has been less than honest, is that ACTUALLY going to help your case or add fuel to the fire ...

My thinking is if you are confident that you can get an interim for overnights from this next hearing, then don't complicate it. Keep your powder dry... If she pulls any more stunts during the intreim orders you can add that to it at final.

 

[vwka84]

I think you have to weigh up the *possible* advantage of having this evidence submitted ..... If it is submitted by the ICL, that is the best way to go because you are at arms length from it so to speak ...

This is a judge that has already ordered supervised visits only even after finding no risk, you don't want to be adding to any sense of conflict between you & mum.... Always a two edged sword for blokes... Even if you can prove that the other side has been less than honest, is that ACTUALLY going to help your case or add fuel to the fire ...

My thinking is if you are confident that you can get an interim for overnights from this next hearing, then don't complicate it. Keep your powder dry... If she pulls any more stunts during the intreim orders you can add that to it at final.

I think it might help my case as she told the police there's no violence. the real witness who came. The police said her statements seemed coached as well and place me as affected family member.

However, she told DHHS, court, in her affidavits that I beat her up seriously. It's impossible if police who came hours later observed no injuries?

The only thing that the court is holding me from having more time with my child is always saying "Due to the serious allegations of violence by the respondent (ex), they have to take into consideration of risks"

If i were to mention it at least during the interim hearing... would that help alleviate some of their concerns?

 

[GlassHalfFull]

The ICL that i got was honestly quite lazy and only sends out emails few hours before hearings usually.

Ha, we must have had the same ICL. At least they came in to bat for me eventually, but my lawyer ended up having to do a lot of the legwork for them in order to get things moving in time for hearings.

 

[Atticus]

The only thing that the court is holding me from having more time with my child is always saying "Due to the serious allegations of violence by the respondent (ex), they have to take into consideration of risks"

If i were to mention it at least during the interim hearing... would that help alleviate some of their concerns?

Who knows ... I don't think anybody on here (or anywhere TBH) has any special insight on what any particular judge may do on the day.

As already mentioned, I do believe that if that material is to be given any weight, that it would be more likley to happen if the ICL raised it.... Certainly if allegations of FV are raised again as a factor in restricting visits, then it should be raised by someone. I would be discussing it with the ICL if possible.