VIC Stalking - What to Do if Stalker is in Another Country?

Discussion in 'Criminal Law Forum' started by EllenWolf, 9 July 2018.

  1. EllenWolf

    EllenWolf Member

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    Hi there,

    I'm not sure where this question might go, hopefully here is okay.

    The question I have is, if one is getting stalked and severely harassed online from someone outside of Australia, can one seek help from Victorian police, or is this a case of "there's nothing we can do to help?"

    Without delving into the disgusting depths of my very long and exhausting story, I have many friends in the US and one in particular has stalked me from LA for about 3 years now, even though I live in Australia. We share mutual friends, in real life, whom I've met in person, so it's not completely random.

    I receive up to 350 messages and emails every single day from this man. Most people do the "just block him" thing, but he is clearly unstable, psychotic (he thinks we're married even though I haven't replied in years, and even before that we weren't that close at all, he is severely delusional).

    I'm terrified to block him in case that pushes him to take further more serious action as he knows where I live and work even, so that doesn't stop him from signing up for different emails and social media accounts to continue the stalking etc, which I also have proof he's doing in attempts to provoke me (which he also admits in emails).

    He has proceeded to stalk and gather photos of me (that not even I have saved, which are also private. He sends them to me to taunt me). He sends me screenshots of him stalking every family member's socials and every person I've ever been friends with/or follow or strangers I merely interact with, including innocent fans of my creative work.

    I know his name, where he lives and I've retained every email and message as evidence (hence why I don't want to block him, as I want to keep his messages as proof).

    I can't change my email or number as I use such for my business. He knows where I live and work (he sends creepy stuff to my house and constantly rings my workplace, despite me telling him not to years ago (no idea how he found out where I work).

    He has nearly got me fired many times. He knows my exact weekly schedule, even speaks of boyfriends/girlfriends of distant relatives. He is obsessed and just never stops. I haven't actually replied to him for at least 2 whole years. I guess I thought he'd just get bored and give up, but it seems to be getting worse, nor have I encouraged him in any way at all, yet he continues to fabricate deranged stories about me, then believes them and abuses me for these wild made-up stories.

    He seems very dangerous as the only times I've spoke to him, a year ago, was to tell him to stop and to leave me alone - that just made it worse as he doesn't believe he's doing anything wrong. He creates fake accounts and pretends to be people to get me to reply, and I can't be totally private due to my second day-job as a creative freelancer. He has basically destroyed my life.

    Every morning I awake to a flood of abuse including horrific things he says he will be doing to me sexually "when he arrives in Australia", often sending me photos of plane tickets and telling me that I will have no choice and he will be with me forever whether I like it or not...

    Honestly this is just my brief overview. I have over 12,000 messages saved from the past year, not including emails or the hundreds/thousands of calls I've never answered.

    I haven't even bothered to go to the police as this isn't my first stalker. The other one was in Australia and they couldn't even do anything about it. I've been to the police a few times with serious issues in the past, and they never seem to be able to help, even with evidence, so I've just sort of lost faith and have just attempted to ignore it all, but I'm over having to deal with this every day of my life. As this man isn't living in Australia I assume there's nothing I can do?

    I assume I can't even get in contact with LA police, so I'm just posting here as things have gotten so bad lately, he has destroyed my life in so many ways, and destroyed me as a person through his manipulation and emotional abuse to say the least. He also spreads lies amongst our mutual friends and making sure they won't be there to support me. I never speak or even look at any man out of fear he might find out, considering the horrific stuff he says he'll do to me for things I actually haven't even done.

    Every person I show are just lost for words. People don't take it seriously because it's ''online'' but I know this man and his friends, and it really sucks that people get away with this sort of stuff just because there address is a little different.

    I fear for my safety and will have to look at moving house and jobs just to feel safe, he has bluntly admitted to doing certain things to provoke me and told me to never tell anymore or *insert various horrible things he will do to me*...

    I'm terrified to speak to people, I have anxiety attacks looking at my phone, every time I go on social media, I'm terrified to post something or merely like a tweet as I get severely abused for it. He's an actual psychopath - it's not even slightly okay behaviour, considering I've done nothing wrong and nothing to encourage him.

    He's talking to me as if we're married, he's having conversations at me, about me, as if I'm actually replying, half the stuff he says I can't even understand anymore - it's not even making sense. I have every message and email saved. I'm talking nearly 20,000 messages sent in the past 2 years when I consider all social accounts he attempts to contact me on plus email etc, with thousands of calls etc.

    I saw this happening to a man in the US, but the cyber-stalker was from the US and she went to jail or something. Is there anything one can do if it's the same case but involves someone living in another country? Do I literally have to wait until he comes to Australia and hurts/rapes me (like he says he will, aka threats) before the police can do something? Sorry if this is a little forward, sadly this isn't even the start of it.

    Sorry this got a little long, it's a very messed up and in-depth story, few words can't even bring to describe.

    Does anyone have any options?

    Thank you in advance for any thoughts or help.
     
  2. Rob Legat - SBPL

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    I suggest you notify the police here for the sake of completeness, but there's not much they can do themselves.

    However, what may really assist is making a complaint here: Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) | File a Complaint

    Their FAQs specifically state that they can investigate a complaint made even though the complainant is not a US citizen - as long as the person complained about is in the US.
     
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  3. EllenWolf

    EllenWolf Member

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    Thank you for your reply, sadly I had a feeling nothing could be done :/
    It's a shame there's not laws for this sort of thing in this modern internet age, as it's worse than simply walking down the street and getting attacked or harassed as people over the net can destroy lives, this guy has done so to mine, he even knows when I'm leaving work for the night. I've lost all family and friends, I was suicidal for ages because of what he's done, it's definitely more than mere words it's beyond manipulation and abuse, but yeah just a shame people can get away with this stuff, I think people know they can so they go all-out to really mess people's lives up.

    It's sad that I have to wait until he physically hurts me before people can help, considering society is more than aware of the dangers of mental abuse, which is often worse and more dangerous than any mere physical attack. Anyway this guy is the first psycho I've truly come across, which makes him more dangerous as he's incredibly delusional, I thought this sort of stuff was just in movies. I might simply just have to wait until he comes to Aus (which he will be) and hopefully police might be able to help.
    I might just move house and work, it honestly seems quicker and easier, sadly.

    Sadly all my experiences with the police, regarding real life threatening people, also regarding rape, with witnesses, have fallen by the wayside, so I sadly don't have much hope, this is the sad reality I guess, this is why I haven't left my house for over a year except to go to work, just the fear of going out in the public amongst other people fearing men due to my experiences and knowing most will do what they want coz they can without consequences, it's no way to live but I guess it is what it is and one just has to deal with it.

    Anyway, thank you for your help and suggestion regarding the internet crime complain center, I really appreciate it and will definitely look into it :)
     
  4. Clancy

    Clancy Well-Known Member

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    I find it sad that police are always around to hand you petty traffic fines, but when it comes to helping people in 'real' life, all too often they dont have time/interest.
     
  5. Bill Murray

    Bill Murray Well-Known Member

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    Clancy, do tell what you believe the state police should do about it and then let me know what actual powers they have to enforce what you suggest...

    EDIT: Should be clear - As a cop I would love to do something about these kinds of scenarios but there is no inter-country cooperation on offences like this. None.
     
  6. EllenWolf

    EllenWolf Member

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    I agree, it's really frustrating, thankfully I've taken steps to grow my mindset to get over this on a personal level, I'm not gonna let this man get away with what he's done/doing to me, the best I can do is just learn to deal with it. I just wish there was something, even stopping him at the airport/customs or something so he can't get into Oz, but I don't think that's even possible as they'll argue he might just be here for a holiday which isn't a crime (even though I will know exactly why he'd be here, since he has bluntly sent me his plans).
    Sadly the police seem to be so reactive rather proactive, always having to wait for something to happen but clearly this guy is dangerous so it doesn't seem fair that he has to physically harm me first considering I have so much evidence over the course of years, and I haven't even encouraged him or contacted him once yet he continues as if nothing is he doing is wrong, so delusional, not mentally well at all.
    Sadly my friend was raped at a club, witnesses, evidence, everything, and the police still didn't "have enough evidence" to charge the guy, it was devastating, it ruined her life, the guy got away with it, little slap on the wrist, it's like it has to happen in their offices for them to believe you or do something, which is not the nature of crime so it's strange how they can't help when people need it most, before a crime not after it.

    I know if this guy comes to Australia he will be coming to rape me, he might even kill me that's not even far-fetched based on the 20k+ abusive messages he sends me, making up stories and then punishing me for said made-up accusations/fantasies. I have emails of him literally admitting his plans, in graphic detail, he even makes jokes about how "Australian customs probably won't even let me through" not sure what he's insinuating.
    My option will then be to take it into my own hands, for that I of all people will probably get a charged for. It's just messed up that people get away with this sort of stuff, my life will never be the same. I will just have to re-locate and change work so he can't actually find me. He even stalks all in my family, all my friends in Oz, and documents them as well (the idiot sends me it all, he's actually really stupid).

    They really need to consider new laws to fit this modern technological age. I'm not at all looking for sympathy from police, and obviously I understand they can't help as that's not in their power if he lives elsewhere, I just wish there was a way to stop these people so they don't do it to others. This guy in mention sends over 300 messages to me a day, most of it is abusive, disgusting, violent, threatening, invasive, I don't know what he's capable of, he talks about guns and how he won't let any other man get in his way to me etc and how I'll have no choice but to be with him forever. I can't even look at a man in public in Australia without fearing he'll find out and fearing what he'll actually do.
    I'm actually too scared to even tell his friends or anything in America, as I don't know what he'll do if he finds out I've told someone as he warned me harshly to never speak of it etc.

    Anyway I appreciate the support and input guys, sadly I'm not sure I'll bother going to the police I definitely knew they wouldn't be able to help since he's in a different country with different laws, it's not their fault, just the out-dated system. The internet is such a wonderful invention but it's like one big dark alleyway.

    Sorry for the rambles! This situation has taken over my life, it's so elaborate I don't know how to be "short and sweet" :rolleyes:
     
  7. Clancy

    Clancy Well-Known Member

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    My point is precisely about what police are there for from the perspective of authorities/law makers.... its easy having them handing out petty traffic fines, and making revenue from it, but more complex things are shied away from because its too difficult. It irritates me.

    At the very least, there should be sufficient evidence to block this man entering the country?
     
  8. Bill Murray

    Bill Murray Well-Known Member

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    Oh, fair enough.

    I issue tickets for mobile phone related offences and red light offences. That's it really - unless you do something REALLY dumb in front of me. Probably no more than 10-15 a year.

    I doubt they can refuse entry from this. Maybe - I honestly have no idea. I know that the law is specific in when someone can be excluded. I've never personally had this type of case presented to me at work so I've never had to look into whether we can do that but I'd be surprised if there is a process for it.

    There is one person who has the power to prevent anyone he wants from entering the country - Peter Dutton. The OP could write to his office. There is no way you're going to get a cop write to a minister, our quasi-military rank structure would almost certainly prohibit that.
     
  9. EllenWolf

    EllenWolf Member

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    That's okay, I understand, I have spoken to one of my work managers, whose sister is a cop, and I was just reaching out further in case there was something, as I genuinely didn't know if maybe there was a law that might help me.
    I'm not complaining or trying to start something, yesterday was just a really bad day, he did some really messed-up stuff and really affected my life as a whole and I'm just done dealing with it, so I was just reaching out in any way, grasping for straws really. I knew instantly that Vic police can't help me if the guy is in US, I know it's not their fault, and I know most would love to help as this stuff sucks and shouldn't happen to innocent people. I guess I was more curious if, when he does arrive in australia, if there's laws that can prevent him from entering, but I just assumed there isn't and he will have to do something harmful first as I expect you can't charge/arrest someone for assumptions of things they might do (despite having so much evidence of his plans) so I'm not annoyed or angry, this is honestly what I first thought such is why I haven't gone to the police in years.
    In general, it just really sucks that this is what woman like me have to constantly look forward to, this is definitely not my first experience with a stalker, or abusive men at all, all those were in Oz though, who sadly all got away with it due to there not being enough evidence, but most men aren't going to abuse someone and leave a pile of evidence :/ Anyway definitely don't want to go into all that.

    I guess Clancy was just saying how most people feel, we realise the police can't help and wish they could, we're not being offensive or rude or having a go, this is a real situation in my real life, the last thing I want to do is spend time on the internet arguing, I usually avoid forums haha. I respect police without a doubt, my brother in law is training to become one, it's just a huge shame that people can and will get away with this new sort of crime because there is no way to stop them, times are so different now with the internet I just hope one day soon enough there might be some new way to help those getting attacked from others in other countries as this stuff ends lives, and is so much more serious than so many other crimes people are often charged for :/ (again I'm not saying that police aren't aware, and don't want to help, I'm saying I wish soon enough, in general, there might be some positive changes for people suffering amongst similar situations, as a whole, so we can all feel safe).

    Anyway I'll leave this convo now as I'm not trying to start something, I appreciate the help sincerely, I realise my best option is to just move house and work-place so I can feel safe to know he won't just show up. I was just reaching out, it's really hard to talk about this sort of stuff, so I'm not here to start stuff, this is the first time I've been able to even talk about it without fear and this is the first action I've bothered to take just randomly hoping there might be a glimpse of hope for me amongst the law (I'm not angry that there isn't, I expected such, it is what it is, I know this, he's living in another country, I know Oz police don't have power in LA, I guess I was mostly curious if I could do something from here to affect him there, which you helped me with, which I'm very thankful for). My brother is living part time in LA, maybe he can also help me report him or something.
    It has been a really lonely few years most people I even attempt to get support from are just speechless when they see what he sends, so yeah not trying to offend other people of all things, this situation is so messed up, and I'm a really genuine and nice person, the last thing thing I want is to upset others talking about this sort of stuff, which is part of the reason why I've kept so quiet for so long and just sort of put up with it.

    Thank you again for the help, as mentioned I genuinely do appreciate it
     
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  10. Bill Murray

    Bill Murray Well-Known Member

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    Posting this again just in case you missed it:
    There is one person who has the power to prevent anyone he wants from entering the country - Peter Dutton. The OP could write to his office. There is no way you're going to get a cop write to a minister, our quasi-military rank structure would almost certainly prohibit that.

    Sorry - didn't read the last post, rushing out of the house so I'll read it later.
     
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