QLD Producing a valid train ticket grounds for a search?

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fedupwithqldgovt

Active Member
7 September 2018
5
0
31
So the other day I got off the train, with a lot of other commuters.
I was walking up the stairs an saw 2 officers standing at the top. Thinking they were rail squad I reached into my back pocket to grab my valid train ticket. As I approached the top the officer singled me out an asked only for mine and my partners train tickets. I produced my ticket to the officer, handed it to him and kept walking. I heard the officer say loudly to the other officer grab her grab Her. He told me to stop and come back which I did. He told me that he was going to conduct a search and asked if I consented to it. I told him no as I hadn't done anything wrong, I had produced a valid ticket as he requested and was there a recent crime been commited in the area for him to conduct this search. He then detained me or the purposes of a search. I asked him what the reason was he detaining me for a search.he didnt respond. I again asked him if the reason he was detaining me for a search was that of producing a valid train ticket, I told him he wasn't allowed to do that and I had done nothing wrong. He again asked me if I consented to the search and I again told him no.
He then searched my belongings and then told me I was under arrest for the purposes of another search. To which he took me to their room at the train station, called a female officer to search me, she took me.to a room inside that room, didn't bother to close the door until I asked her to shut the door, then searched me further. She told police who arrested me that nothing was found and I was free to go. My partner was arrested with cuffs after not consenting to a search. We also have a non contact dvo which the police didn't say a word about.
Would having and producing a valid train ticket upon request be grounds enough for a search on train station cctv and after not consenting to that search???
 

Joshbuck

Well-Known Member
4 November 2019
32
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QLD
No, my guess would be they were hoping you’d say you consented to the search one of the hundred times they asked you, or wait until they’ve found some marijuana to say the smell of it was their reasonable suspicion.
If I were you I would report this illegal search, the more we let them get away with this behaviour the more prevalent it will become.
The reasonable suspicion they claim after the fact can be as vague as the area having a lot of crime and you acting fidgety.
Something any good lawyer should be able to get thrown out if they’d found anything on you (that doesn’t produce a strong smell)

What do you mean train station cctv?
If they weren’t wearing body cameras and using them then you should have been recording yourself (only on lockscreen, consider a live-recording app like Bambuser)

To answer your question, no of course presenting a valid ticket isn’t reasonable suspicion for a search, it isn’t anything. But that isn’t what they’ll say their reasonable suspicion was.
They would say something along the lines of the train station having a lot of violent and/or drug crimes and you acting “shifty” if nobody was recording the interaction I wouldn’t put it past them to simply lie and say you did consent to the search.
 

Joshbuck

Well-Known Member
4 November 2019
32
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121
21
QLD
Anything you say can help them prove their reasonable suspicion for the search or incriminate you in any number of ways, talking never helps so here’s the only 3 things I recommend saying to police.

“My name and address is ____”
“I do not consent to any searches”
“Am I being detained or am I free to go?”

Hopefully it never gets to this but the fourth and final thing you’re going to want to say is “I do not want to give any statements without consulting my lawyer”
 

Joshbuck

Well-Known Member
4 November 2019
32
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121
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QLD
I’ve been trying to find anything tangible they could use to get away with this illegal search, assuming everything you told me is correct, the only real excuse I could find is that according to Police Powers and Responsibilities Act 2000 (current as 03/12/2018) Chapter 2 Part 2 Division 2 [s30] (i) “the person has consorted, is consorting, or is likely to consort with 1 or more recognised offenders”


Recognised offender being “an adult with a recorded conviction (other than a spent conviction) for an indictable offence punishable by at least 5 years imprisonment or another prescribed offence under section 77 of the Criminal Code.”


So if that is not the case of your partner you should be able to make a complaint and have it stick, please keep us informed.


And if there was a female officer a reasonable distance away the male officer shouldn’t have been patting you down.
 

Scruff

Well-Known Member
25 July 2018
818
126
2,389
NSW
If they were Police officers, then merely handing them the ticket and walking off is bound to raise their suspicions. The simple rule of thumb is that if the Police stop you for any reason at all, don't leave until they say you can leave.

You also mentioned that a crime had been committed in the area. It sounds to me like you (or the person you were with) matched the description of someone they were looking for and this is why you were stopped in the first place. If that was the case, then trying to walk off would have made you look like you had something to hide.
 

fedupwithqldgovt

Active Member
7 September 2018
5
0
31
Why would handing them the ticket and walking off be enough reason to arouse suspicion?? Suspicion of what exactly? I have the officer what he requested. He never requested me to stand there while he read the ticket.
And scruff, I asked him if any crime had just been commited for him to suspect the offender was me. He couldn't answer neither that question or the question of why he was detaining me. He simply said 'now your under arrest'. I asked him what for and he didn't say exactly.
As for consorting with a convicted criminal, even if he was one, we had peopld everywhere between us and we're not talking as we went up the stairs so the officer has made an assumption that 2 perfectly normal citizens were together.
There is video recording 24/7 at train stations am.i right??? When being searched in front of those recording cameras, does the person who is monitoring that camera, have to be the same sex of the person being searched and does that camera not need to be switched off when doing so?
The whole charade was to say the least, f***ing humiliating ring singled out and searched like convicted criminals that have just done a runner with a valid train ticket.
 

Joshbuck

Well-Known Member
4 November 2019
32
0
121
21
QLD
Yea Scruff is right, they could argue that most people in that situation would wait until the ticket has been read and returned.

If you handed it over and walked away without a word that would raise red flags, but hey not everybody’s the same, perhaps you have extreme social anxiety.


Your next interaction with police should go along the lines of the 3 responses I prepared for you earlier.

If you are illegally searched/detained and those were your only responses to them your lawyer would have a much easier job proving they violated your rights.


And it’s not just the words you use but also your behaviour/demeanour so keep it cool. Speaking of, maybe refrain from profanity on here. Everybody seems very professional.


He actually can make the assumption you’re together and with a dvo out there he can prove his assumption was right.


You mean the person monitoring the camera when you were being strip searched?
I imagine it should be a female officer, how you’d ever find out if it was or wasn’t I haven’t a clue.
I just know the male shouldn’t have patted you down if a female could have.
 

Bananatree

Well-Known Member
26 April 2019
26
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126
Hello,
There are many grounds for reasonable suspicion for a search. Maybe have a look at what happened in the lead up and see if you can identify what may have been their grounds. IE do you have significant criminal history and/or does your boyfriend? Was anything found in the search they may have seen or smelt prior or were told about by another person? Was your behaviour suspicious prior to being stopped? Or whilst stopped (I would suggest throwing a ticket at them and walking away would be classed suspicious if it was backed by other suspicious behaviour or Intel regarding a suspected person)
A female officer is required if 'reasonably practicable' so if one was close by then yes they should have done the search. If one had to be called in for the subsequent search and wasn't present at the initial search then the male can do it. For a strip search relatively heavy reasonable suspicion would have to be present.
I would suggest if you wish to take it further to request the stop and search report either directly from the station or through freedom of information.
 

Dorizzdt

Member
13 February 2020
3
0
1
Hello,
There are many grounds for reasonable suspicion for a search. Maybe have a look at what happened in the lead up and see if you can identify what may have been their grounds. IE do you have significant criminal history and/or does your boyfriend? Was anything found in the search they may have seen or smelt prior or were told about by another person? Was your behaviour suspicious prior to being stopped? Or whilst stopped (I would suggest throwing a ticket at them and walking away would be classed suspicious if it was backed by other suspicious behaviour or Intel regarding a suspected person)
A female officer is required if 'reasonably practicable' so if one was close by then yes they should have done the search. If one had to be called in for the subsequent search and wasn't present at the initial search then the male can do it. For a strip search relatively heavy reasonable suspicion would have to be present.
I would suggest if you wish to take it further to request the stop and search report either directly from the station or through freedom of information.

Police have the power to stop, detain and search any individual or their possessions if the police have reasonable suspicion that a person is any of the following:
  • A participant in a criminal organisation;
  • Has a weapon or explosive in their possession;
  • A dangerous drug is on their person;
  • They are in possession of stolen property, unlawfully obtained property or tainted property;
  • Evidence of an offence is on their person;
  • They have an antique firearm without permission;
  • Anything that is primarily used to steal vehicles, implement housebreaking or to administer a dangerous drug is in their possession; or
  • They have a tool or item that could cause harm to someone.
Imho the OP's position if true and accurate would not fit the criteria of reasonable search - and supicious behaviour threshould wouldn't pass muster. (Im just a student of law at the moment, but i can't seem to find anything that would give police such grounds - hersay rule maybe?)
 

Bananatree

Well-Known Member
26 April 2019
26
0
126
Hello,
I am in full agreement with your facts. My post was merely to point out that sometimes the reasonable suspicion is not clear. Yes it should have been pointed out to the op but if she was being difficult (walking away, argumentative etc) then this may have been missed. We have no idea if another person had advised them something or if they had seen the op do something prior or if Intel had been received about a person matching their description etc. Hence my suggestion to seek the information through RTI if she was concerned regarding an unlawful search.