NSW Raising a question of changing orders with the judge?

[Been2Trial]

Hi,

Shortly there will be a change of schedule in our orders. They are intended to be a progressive step to more time as our daughter gets older.

Currently, the orders are that our daughter spends two 6 hour days and one separate overnight (from 3pm Thursday to 10am Friday) during the week. This is the weekly cycle.

The orders are changing to a two week cycle, but I have some questions as to whether there was some kind of oversight by the judge when he has made them - because they seem to actually reduce the time and schedule, but then 6 months after this, the orders change again and they significantly increase again.

The orders are about to change from the previously stated, to the two week cycle of:

Week 1: Two 8hr Week Days (Wed and Friday)

Week 2: One 8hr Week Day and Saturday morning to Monday morning (so most of the weekend)

The overnight has been removed from the first week, despite the orders stating that I would have my daughter for the full day on what would normally be the next day.

However, at the end of this year, the orders change again to:

Week 1: A block of 3 days, two nights mid week

Week 2 (Unchanged): One 8hr Week Day and Saturday morning to Monday morning (so most of the weekend)

So I can't help but wonder if the judge intended to remove the regular weekly overnight for 6 months only to return it to two weekly overnights just 6 months later?

Surely it would be in the childs best interests to maintain the regular overnight pattern (The Thursday nights, continuing through the full day Friday), especially seeing as this goes into the block 3 days 2 nights just 6 months further down the track again?

My questions are:

a) Do you think this might actually be an oversight by the judge?
b) If it may be (and oversight), is it possible and what would I need to do to request a review of this by the judge without looking to re-open the case?

I'm obviously not looking to come across disrespectfully to the judge in questioning him, but I do feel its a strange change up of the schedule that would have made far more sense to have continued on with the weekly overnight for the next 6 months...

I have raised this with the mother and she of course has declined to agree to a self managed variation to the orders for this time, so that boat has sailed!

Appreciate your opinions and input on this

 

[Been2Trial]

A couple of minor grammar/typos there, sorry - it wont let me edit!

 

[AllForHer]

Where are you at in proceedings? Are these final orders?

 

[sammy01]

how old are the kids?

Help me out with the math... Right now how many hours do you spend with the kids? How much will it be once the new arrangements kicks in?

Maybe - ol' judge is being a bit cautious... Sure your amount of time doesn't increase... But the amount of time in each visit does. So instead two X 1 night - you're getting 2 in a row. So more time to bond and more time away from mum - but not exactly increasing your time - but increasing the amount of time in each visit.

At the end of the year it increases to 4 nights a fortnight?

YEP - maybe the judge made a mistake... Worth chasing? nope, not in my opinion... By the sounds of things the kids are young? or some other issue is preventing more care? so getting 4 a fortnight by the end of the year isn't bad... I reckon this is one where it might be best to let it go...

 

[Been2Trial]

Yes, these are part of the final orders that were made in October last year. This is the first change of a series that will occur over the next 1.5 years... The ultimate culmination of the orders is a 5/9 (3 days/2nights in week one and every second weekend from Friday to Monday + Week on/Week off during school holidays, except the Christmas long break which is first half with one parent second half with the other, alternating years).

I understand that being final orders, trying to get anything changed is going to be far more difficult - but I wonder if its a genuine mistake on the judges behalf and that its something that might come under a slip rule scenario or somthing similar? Could it hurt to ask? If I did raise it, what would be the appropriate way to do so? There is still just over a month until the change is due to occur....

 

[Been2Trial]

Sammy01,

Yes child is under 4 years old. The hours of the week days increases from 9am to 3pm to 9am to 5pm, so a slight increase of a few hours on those days... 6hrs increase in total on those days plus the grouped overnights on the second weekend, which will as mentioned above become a full weekend at the end of 2019...

I totally accept you're response too, I know, its just 6 months and its probably best to just ride it out if its going to be a major drama... My reason for raising it is because I genuinely feel its not in the best interests of our child to break that routine of weekly overnights now for 6 months, just to return to it at the end of this year again with block time of 3 days.... just seems strange to me... but your answer also hints at the other perspective that could be seen of this and whilst I strongly disagree with it, I accept it might be the answer anyway...

If there is an easy way to raise it and the reason for my questioning of it to the judge, then would love to know how - I accept his answer might be "Nope, that is exactly what I intended, best of luck with that!" but if there's no harm trying?

Thanks for the responses both of you!

 

[sammy01]

Ok, so I'm sorta struggling to understand. Hence me asking how many hours a fortnight now? how many after the change? I'm just trying to understand.

I think I might be giving bad advice, but that has never stopped me in the past...

So are you self representing? if not bring it to the attention of your solicitor.

So in your first post you asked..."do you think this is an oversight by the judge?"
Why don't you answer... Do you think it is an oversight? IF so then the 'slip rule' might be worth a look. Basically, if there is obviously a typo or other oversight... So for example the intention of my first set of orders was that each parent had Christmas morning on alternate years. So the orders said something like:
The children spend time with mum on christmas eve until noon on christmas day on odd years.
And
the children spend time with MUM on Christmas eve until noon on Christmas day on even years.

Clearly an error and for 3 years we followed the orders with dad having even years because that was the intention of the order. When the ex realised there was a mistake, she took all sorts of joy in telling me I'd never be seeing the kids Christmas morning ever again. HA HA.... She also took great joy in telling me that this was not a signficant change in circumstance and as such the courts wont look at it, so no point in trying... It didn't even go to court, some administration clerk at the court acknowledged that is was a mistake and nice new orders were stamped before santa came and the kids were with me when he did....

But I'm not sure your example is slip rules stuff, hence my comment about not being sure if the advice is any good...

If the slip rule doesn't apply, then I'd suggest letting it go... 6 months? by the time it gets to court and all the grief? My opinion, don't fret... Mate you have done well. Again just opinion... Move on. Let it go. Start recovering from the stress of this crap. But if you do think it might be a slip rule candidate, I'd give that a go... If that fails, reconsider your options then

 

[Been2Trial]

Currently each week is 30hrs (2 x 6hr days and one overnight 4pm to 10am (18hrs) = 30hrs) - So if you want to count it over a fortnight, its simply 2 x 30 = 60hrs P/F

The change in orders will be:

Week one: (2 8hr days) = 16hrs
Week two: (1 8hr day and 12:00 Saturday to 9am Monday (42hrs)) = 50hrs

So the total for the fortnight would be 66hrs....

There's about 6hrs difference in it and again, it seems weird to take that night away in week one... its barely a step up is it?

 

[thatbloke]

I think you will find the step up from one night weekly to two counts as a step up. Were these consent orders? If not why did you not raise it at the time? If they are, why did you sign them?

 

[Been2Trial]

thatbloke - These were final orders brought about as result of a magistrates judgment after a full trial.