QLD How to Fight Traffic Infringement Notice?

[Bazzybtec]

Hi all.

I have received a traffic infringement notice from Queensland police for "failing to stop at a stop sign". I believe this is one of those technicality things where the wheels did not come to a complete stop. I can't confirm as my attention was on what traffic was doing at the intersection and my safety and the safety of others rather than the rotational speed of the tyres.

I realize this has nothing to do with safety and it is about how much the road bandits can get from the public in a day.

Is there something I can do to fight this? I was just going to pay it but I am annoyed that this cycle of rewarding the criminals in uniform for poor behavior continues if we are just complacent with this.

They should be out catching real criminals rather than harassing the general public being a public nuisance.

I have a very low opinion of police because they are very quick to give people these fines yet, the two separate occasions that I have had attempted break-ins and theft of property, it has been a real fight to get them to do anything. And in one case, I had to recover the stolen property myself and they felt it necessary to tell me that I would face prosecution if I recover the item myself.

However I realised that given they were too lazy to do their job they are unlikely to prosecute me for recovering my property and if they did I would take it directly to the media. I am sure there are good police but unfortunately the crooked ones ruin it for the others.

 

[Rob Legat - SBPL]

So, you admit (or, at least, admit it is possible) that you did not come to a complete stop at a stop sign?

Pay the fine. The police did not make the rules, and you don't know that having a stop sign there has "nothing to do with safety".

You also can't compare this situation with a break and enter - unless the police are actually there to witness the break and enter. I doubt they'd issue you with a traffic infringement notice if someone called them and told them you'd failed to stop.

 

[Bazzybtec]

So, you admit (or, at least, admit it is possible) that you did not come to a complete stop at a stop sign?

Pay the fine. The police did not make the rules, and you don't know that having a stop sign there has "nothing to do with safety".[/QUOTE]

That is a technicality and you know it. How can you argue that the vehicle that is moving at 0.01kph is a safety issue. The stop sign is not the issue. I can see that if you zoomed through a stop sign that is a safety issue. Stopping to the point where you no longer register you are moving, a logical person would conclude that it is not a safety issue.

But I have learned my lesson here too. Screw safety make sure, the car is stopped completely, ignore traffic, it is irreverent. Look at the trees or the kerb or things beside you to make sure the car is not in any way moving. then drive off. That's the safe way of doing it.

Furthermore I have witnessed and have video footage via dash cam (and yes I have reviewed the footage and if the vehicle is moving it is not noticeable in the footage) of police doing dangerous and illegal moves on the highway regularly. Is there some sort of authority board I can submit this to so the offending officers can be punished for endangering public safety while in uniform?

I know that there are police that do the right thing but the performance and behavior of the Queensland police is unacceptable particularly on the road and this needs to be rectified.

You also can't compare this situation with a break and enter - unless the police are actually there to witness the break and enter. I doubt they'd issue you with a traffic infringement notice if someone called them and told them you'd failed to stop.

That's good to know that traffic infringements are more important than break and enters. There was literally no work the police officer had to do as the criminal who had stolen the item had it listed on gumtree with the serial number and all. I had provided the documentation providing proof of ownership of that item. Box for the item and receipts however they where unwilling to help. There was literally no excuse the officer not to take action however he chose not to.

Furthermore the person in question had previously been charged and convicted of theft and had a criminal record. I have since then been told that police don't take "petty theft" seriously.

But I guess in the end the criminal justice system is really there to let the real criminals get away while harassing the public.

 

[Rob Legat - SBPL]

Your situation reminds me of the joke where a lawyer has this exact same argument with a police officer: Stop Or Slow Down? - Funny & Jokes

The law is full of technicalities. Whether I "know it" or not is irrelevant. You're changing the argument if you want to discuss the speed with which you travel through a stop sign, which is still irrelevant. You don't look at the speed of the movement, you look at the absoluteness of it. The difference between 0.01 km/h and 0 km/h is greater than the difference between 0.01 km/h and any other number, because only 0 km/h is a stop - anything else is not a stop. And, that is what the law requires you to do.

As for comparing traffic infringements to petty theft, I'm not disagreeing with your frustration. However, there are practical considerations at play, including: the amount of work necessary for the police, the likelihood of a 'positive' outcome, the potential damage that could be caused, the danger to the public...

Perhaps another way to put it is this: If you're concerned about wastage of police resources in pursuing minor things instead of getting on to important things, then pay your fine and don't tie up police resources in disputing it.

 

[Bazzybtec]

As for comparing traffic infringements to petty theft, I'm not disagreeing with your frustration. However, there are practical considerations at play, including: the amount of work necessary for the police, the likelihood of a 'positive' outcome, the potential damage that could be caused, the danger to the public...

Then if the police are under that amount of load that they are unable to deal with the actual criminals who cause people harm, then they simply should never release them. As stated, this person had previously been charged and imprisoned for doing the same sort of thing. If he hadn't been released from jail he wouldn't have been able to steal from me.

I also think that police who themselves break the law that they are sworn to uphold should immediately be stripped of rank and removed from the force. That would ensure they operate within the law. it cant be denied that they often go on a power trip and fill they are above the law.

A good example was the event on the gold coast where the officers allowed a young person to die rather rather than getting him immediate medical attention, the punishment for that officer for committing what could be argued as is manslaughter was he was demoted and denied a promotion for a period of time.

If someone else did that lets say a parent, they would be and have been in the past charged and prosecuted with involuntary manslaughter. The fact they are above the law themselves is unacceptable to me.

 

[Rob Legat - SBPL]

Shifting focus is not going to deal with the matter at hand. We're talking about you breaking a road rule.

In any case, you should realise that police do not (a) sentence people, (b) look after prisoners in correctional facilities or (c) decide when prisoners are released. Sentences are determined by courts from what is set out in the law. Prisons and prisoners are governed by Queensland Corrective Services, which fall under the Department of Justice and Attorney-General. The Queensland Police Service is not in control of these areas.

 

[Bazzybtec]

Shifting focus is not going to deal with the matter at hand. We're talking about you breaking a road rule.

In any case, you should realise that police do not (a) sentence people, (b) look after prisoners in correctional facilities or (c) decide when prisoners are released. Sentences are determined by courts from what is set out in the law. Prisons and prisoners are governed by Queensland Corrective Services, which fall under the Department of Justice and Attorney-General. The Queensland Police Service is not in control of these areas.

yes as stated i will pay the fine, however i will be recovering my costs to my clients, one conveniently being the government, so short of the points i loose i will not be out of pocket.

however as for prisoners being under a different arm that does not excuse the unacceptable behavior i and others have witnessed from the police. nor there lack of action surrounding bringing known criminals to justice.

They could have at the very least confronted him rather than tell me that "we can't recover it without a warrant, and that takes time and he will probably have moved it or sold it by then"

or when i said i would recover my property they could have said nothing rather than saying "we will then charge you with theft" (to this i would have thought that they would have to acknowledge they had the evidence that he had stolen from me in the first place given that i have all the receipts and documents proving i own that property.)

After this event i realized that police would rather prosecute the victim than the criminal. and that is largely the way the legal system is perceived in society these days. for example i have heard instances where thiefs have sued their victims if they have been injured while robbing their house.

Why is the legal system so weighted towards the criminal rather than society anyway?