Children's orders not clear

[StillSmiling]

Have finally agreed on Children's Orders (will be sealed by court this week) which state kids spend time with me as of next year "From the conclusion of school on Friday to the commencement of school on Monday in each alternate week and from the conclusion of school on Monday to the commencement of school on Wednesday in each alternate week."
I understand the intent of what the Judge ordered but the other side has a very aggressive lawyer, has been taking every opportunity to threaten contravention applications over the smallest details with the Interim Orders that I think this will happen with Final Orders, too.
I understand this to read Fri-Mon in one week and Mon-Wed in the other week but have a feeling the other side will interpret it to read Fri-Mon and Mon-Wed in the same week, and drop the kids off to school on Mon morning and then come back later that afternoon to collect the kids until Wed morn. Am I interpreting the wording correctly or not? Have already made changes using the Slip Rule, other side's lawyer refusing to make any further changes. What happens next year if I'm right? There are other points in the Orders that can be interpreted in different ways, too. How easy is it to change Final Orders once they are sealed for the sake of clarity? Or will an "incident" need to occur for the courts to make changes? Thanks for any advice. Feels like it will never be over even once Final Orders are sealed!

 

[AllForHer]

It's very difficult to change final orders, but I don't think that's the solution here, unless your ex starts contravening on grounds of misinterpretation.

The sensible interpretation is Friday to Monday in Week One, and then Monday to Wednesday in Week Two.

But, you're completely right in that some people are particularly vindictive and therefore impose really creative ways to interpret the orders, which may well be the case here.

Lucky for you, you're in a pretty good position - it's five nights a fortnight no matter which way you look at it, so, write to the lawyer and ask for clarification about which is the other party's preference - after school Friday to before school Monday in Week One, then after school Monday to before school Wednesday in Week Two, or after school Friday to before school Wednesday every second week in block time? Both equal the same number of nights, so there's really no consequence in that sense, is there? So, give full freedom to the other parent to decide, since it's really of no consequence to you anyway.

For the record, your concern about coming back later in the afternoon on the Monday is not something you need to worry about, because the second part of that order means your time with the child in what is obviously meant to be the second week, starts straight after school, which means you, not the other parent, just collect the child directly from school on the Monday afternoon anyway.

As for threats for contravention applications, you'd best learn how to take a lawyer's threats with a grain of salt. They want to intimidate you to make you comply, but the reality is that it doesn't mean anything unless there's actually a contravention application filed. If the other parent has agreed to consent orders, you can take that mean a desire to get out Court proceedings, because they become very costly, very quick, so the likelihood of instructing their very expensive solicitor to file a contravention application is most likely just all talk, at this stage.

 

[StillSmiling]

Thanks for your reply. I should have mentioned that the children are 5yo & 4yo and Judge actually ordered the week be split in this way (Fri-Mon in week 1, Mon-Wed in week 2) but the orders were typed up by the other side's lawyers this way and I didn't pick up on it. If we don't agree even after requesting clarification from the other side's lawyer, what happens next?

 

[sammy01]

Just relax... I don't think this is one where the other party will try and play silly... WHY? well it doesn't help them... So i had a similar crazy... She would argue all sorts of crazy interpretations of the orders AND every time the consequence was less time with kids for dear o'l dad.... BUT in this case regardless of what version of crazy your ex chooses to put on it - the end result remains the same. 5 a fortnight... So there doesn't appear to be any advantage to her to look at the orders with a pair of crazy glasses on...

My advice - don't mention it. Dont make any sudden moves - just assume that your interpretation is the right one and go from there... Don't go trying to change it according to the slip rule.... Not until the ex raises the possible alternate interpretations...

Learn to self represent for stuff like this... Fortunately, when I was in a similar situation, MY solicitor accepted it was her poor wording that caused the problem, so fixed it for free. My solicitor wrote to the other side, offered her 14 days to respond. She didn't respond... So solicitor then wrote to the court asking for the change under the slip rule and the change got made and new orders sent to both parties. But this only happened after the ex realised the poor wording and wanted to take advantage of it to screw me over. So like I said, do nothing - It ain't so much about picking your battles as not having the battle until it comes to you.

 

[StillSmiling]

I get what you're saying sammy01, let sleeping dogs lie... But given there's a chance before the orders are sealed to clarify wording that's going be final for years ahead, would've thought best to just make change now? To avoid more costs and headache later. (It's been a long, hard slog getting to this point!) The other side is refusing to make any further changes. Can the slip rule still be used even after orders are sealed? And can my lawyer request slip rule changes independently of the other side?

 

[sammy01]

slip rule is applied after orders are stamped and approved by the court and then there is a realisation that a typo / error that effects interpretation is realised...

If you have not signed the consent orders - then don't.... Ask for the amendment - do everything to get it right first time.... Here is another slippery one that looks to be overlooked... What order do the weekends alternate? So what I mean is who has the first weekend of each school term? Once school holidays end who has the first weekend? So in one set of orders I had, the orders clearly stated that I have the first weekend at the commencement of each term. One less thing to argue over AND more importantly, I have a ste-daughter who goes to dad's sometimes... So we wanted to make sure my time with the kids matched up, so the kids could spend time with step daughter...So having that clause in the orders was important. BUT just as importantly it meant no arguments at the start of every term...(Kinda - she argued it wasn't fair because it meant I got one or two additional weekends a year... She didn't seem to think that was fair.... Not bad for an argument out of someone who refused 50/50 care.... Then complained that I had one or two more weekends than her who had 65% care...) Lesson here? get the orders as precise as you can, then realise that no matter how perfect - there will still be stupid arguments....

Oh no - now you've got me going... I once didn't see my kids for a whole month.... WHY? well the orders stipulate when I see them BUT it also says OR "by mutual agreement". She decided that she no longer 'agreed' and as such the phrase 'by mutual agreement' meant she no longer had to give me access to the kids as per the time in the orders because she no longer 'agreed'... So can you see that while you need your orders to be clear...BUT.... Nothing on paper can stop a twit from being a twit...