LawAnswers.com.au - Australia's #1 Legal Community

LawAnswers.com.au is a community of 10,000+ Australians, just like you, helping each other.
Ask a question, respond to a question and better understand the law today!
Join us, it only takes a minute:

VIC Are the Reasons for Judgement Part of the Final Court Orders?

Discussion in 'Family Law Forum' started by alpha, 23 September 2014.

  1. alpha

    alpha Active Member

    Joined:
    23 September 2014
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have just received final court orders (family circuit court)- Lots of things were left out of the final orders- just wondering are the reasons for judgement considered part of the orders too?
    Also, what about what was verbally said in court? There were a few verbal agreements made in court between the parties- but sadly only one of the two are following what was said/written and agreed upon.

    I would appreciate any help regarding this matter.

    thank you
     
  2. Sophea

    Sophea Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    16 April 2014
    Messages:
    2,300
    Likes Received:
    335
    Dear Alpha,

    No. Reasons for judgement are not enforceable, court orders are. Whatever is not in the orders cannot be enforced at law.

    What sort of things do you believe were "left out" of the final orders? Reasons for judgement are merely the supporting facts and reasoning underpinning the decision to make the orders, they do not contain any factual information - for example a finding that "an asset was primarily contributed to by the husband" or that "a party is not fit to have custody of a child because they are a drug user" - rather just the orders made based on those facts such as "the asset goes to the husband" or "100% custody of the child goes to the mother". The orders made should to a large extent reflect what was sort in the Application, not decisions or finding on factual matters.

    As for arguments that were made in court, a judge is not obliged to detail every argument that was made in court. He may refer to somethings that influenced his decision and reasoning but there is definitely no requirement to detail what transpired during the hearing.

    If however there is a very important issue that you applied for a decision on, that was not provided in the orders you would have recourse to the court to remedy this.
     
  3. Sarah J

    Sarah J Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    16 July 2014
    Messages:
    1,314
    Likes Received:
    243
    The reason a verbal argument/statement was left out of the judgment may be because it was 1) not relevant to the decision; 2) not accepted by the judge as fact or evidence; 3) not needed in the judgment.

    The judgment is a brief summary of the judge's reasons for reaching a decision. The orders are the consequences of the decision reached. Only the order(s) are enforceable. Any submissions made during the proceedings, either verbally or in writing, are evidence submitted to the court for the judge to consider. Whilst they may affect the judge's reasoning and ultimate decision, they may not be "material matters". This is a legal term referring to matters/evidence that directly go to and are essential for satisfying the judge that one of the "elements" of the action exists. An action consists of many "elements" (legal points that make up an action). Non-material matters are not included in judgments. Material matters may be included in a judgment but not always.
     
  4. alpha

    alpha Active Member

    Joined:
    23 September 2014
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thank you!
    The things which were left out include phone contact. Despite the judge saying that there would be phone contact with the children for me- unfortunately it wasn't written and the other party is not allowing it.
    Also, in court i had agreed to the chosen location and day of an extra curricular activity and they agreed with the day which I suggested- I have followed what was said but the other party is trying to change the day on me.
    Lastly, one of the main reasons we went was the change of school for the children- there is no mention of it except in the reasons for judgement- (that the children should stay where they are) nothing more. The children live some distance from their current school- and I want to change it to one across the road from them.

    All of these points were in the final orders sought.
     
  5. Sarah J

    Sarah J Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    16 July 2014
    Messages:
    1,314
    Likes Received:
    243
    Are all these things that you're asking for above listed in the custody order? The judgment is not relevant in this case. Only what is written in the order. If not, can you produce written evidence that the judge agreed to these points?
     
  6. alpha

    alpha Active Member

    Joined:
    23 September 2014
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    No. Extra curricular activities are listed in the orders that both parents are to facilitate but it does not specify day or location.
    No phone contact is mentioned either. Nor does it mention that the school can be changed- but it doesn't say that the school cannot be changed either.
    I presume that would fall under the order that both parents have shared responsibility.

    The only evidence which I would be able to produce regarding the missing points would be the transcript.
     

Share This Page

Loading...