WA Opposing lawyer calls sons lawyer so as to avoid ‘sh1t fight’ in court.

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Madagascar Madness

Well-Known Member
16 April 2018
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The abuse was over 5 months...
Frequent bruising...
Broken Femur
Broken Tibia and Fibia
Broken foot
Broken Toe
All on the right leg.
Broken Toe on left foot
Compression fracture to T9 vertebrae
2x cigarette burn to face and stomach.
Blood pooling in groin.

Abuse substantiated to have happened in mothers home by Dept child protection and police.. form 4 response from dcp stating same.

Magistrate said to respondent that these were very serious allegations.
Okay, this is probably one of the reasons why her lawyer is trying to settle. Legal Aid won't often represent at trial and will withdraw funding if the case has no merit.

If I may make a suggestion?

Your son could propose consent orders that make overnights conditional on whatever is necessary to alleviate the risk of abuse.

If it's a mental health condition, then make it conditional on ongoing treatment with dad to receive regular reports from her treating physician.

If it's drug and alcohol abuse, make it conditional on random drug tests.

He could even make it conditional on overnight time being supervised by one of her parents at least, and he could propose that overnight time not start until the kids are older, so they're somewhat more capable of speaking up if mum does something stupid.

And If mum doesn't meet those conditions, then make it a condition that overnight time gets suspended until she does meet them.

If he does go down that path, it would be reasonable to expect such time to occur every second weekend with an afternoon during the week. The Court tends to see merit in the argument that children should have leisurely weekend time with both parents, rather than just one getting all the hard yards during the week, and the other getting all the fun of the weekend.

I don't think there's been much information provided about the nature or frequency of the abuse, nor how it was substantiated, but I'm conscious of the fact there are many cases where allegations of abuse have been made, and so very, very few in comparison which resulted in a finding of same. If the Court doesn’t take the allegations of abuse with as much gusto, then Dad might face criticism from the Court for not being more realistic about the kids time with their mum - after all, these orders will be in place until the kids turn 18, so if Mum takes steps to address the concerns Dad has, why shouldn’t she get a bit more time with the kids?

My view is that it’s always better to be flexible than it is to be rigid about the direction of your family law matter. Being so committed to one outcome that you won’t even consider negotiation otherwise can do more harm than good in the Courtroom.
 

Nonfiction

Well-Known Member
17 May 2018
111
13
414
Victoria
Yep..number two is closer but she wants all weekends..My boy has said NO. Hes not ready to let the kids stay overnight given the abuse of the baby. He is proposing Sundays 10-5pm at her fathers house, Wednesday 4-6 at the local MacDonald or shops, plus the mother able to attend sons sporting events on Saturday, would give approx another 1.5 hours with children.This would be weekly. i think thats a pretty good start.

Who will the Wednesday be supervised by? You, your son? Has your son allowed for any graduated increases? You stated at one stage something about supervised moving to unsupervised time?

Your son has a lawyer who knows all of the facts so my questions are really only to give you something extra to think about...if some form of pre trial agreement is reached, then the ICL (whom I believe has thus far advocated for supervised time to remain in place?) will also need to agree to them.
 

AllForHer

Well-Known Member
23 July 2014
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So, is Dad seeking a no contact order?

Was Mum charged with child abuse?
 

Madagascar Madness

Well-Known Member
16 April 2018
36
2
124
Yep currently supervised time...
Son knows kids need relationship with mum- . Offering Sunday 10-5 as long as supervised by one of her family at thier home- not where the abuse took place.

Mum
Was not charged, just wasn’t quite enough to prove beyond reasonable doubt.

And yes have proposed graduated increases.
I could not in my wildest dreams believe the ICL not to mention the magistrate would contemplate giving the mother a live with order- they have tried twice for it so far and not got!



Who will the Wednesday be supervised by? You, your son? Has your son allowed for any graduated increases? You stated at one stage something about supervised moving to unsupervised time?

Your son has a lawyer who knows all of the facts so my questions are really only to give you something extra to think about...if some form of pre trial agreement is reached, then the ICL (whom I believe has thus far advocated for supervised time to remain in place?) will also need to agree to them.
He is seeking supervised time and there is presently a supervision order for mum with her baby. Just to fill you in.
 

Nonfiction

Well-Known Member
17 May 2018
111
13
414
Victoria
I could not in my wildest dreams believe the ICL not to mention the magistrate would contemplate giving the mother a live with order- they have tried twice for it so far and not got!

Based on all you have said, there would need to be very compelling reasons for the Court to change residency...especially at this point. I cannot see that happening, but just be prepared, that if your son does not enter into consent orders and the matter does go to trial...the orders made may not be exactly as your son has sought. The Courts are also obligated to try to make orders that will not result in further litigation. I do wish your son well!!
 

Madagascar Madness

Well-Known Member
16 April 2018
36
2
124
[Thanks...
My boy has said he will negotiate but will not under any circumstances put the baby or boy at risk!- he wants to move forward and get some normalacy happening. He is more than willing to enter into consent orders- but not at kids expense.



QUOTE="Nonfiction, post: 64202, member: 20288"]Based on all you have said, there would need to be very compelling reasons for the Court to change residency...especially at this point. I cannot see that happening, but just be prepared, that if your son does not enter into consent orders and the matter does go to trial...the orders made may not be exactly as your son has sought. The Courts are also obligated to try to make orders that will not result in further litigation. I do wish your son well!![/QUOTE]
 
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AllForHer

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23 July 2014
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He is seeking supervised time and there is presently a supervision order for mum with her baby. Just to fill you in.

Yes, I’m aware, but I’m actually wondering why he’s not seeking a no contact order if the child suffered broken bones and other injuries in mum’s care.

Not normally a position I take, but it’s hard to argue with broken bones.
 

Nonfiction

Well-Known Member
17 May 2018
111
13
414
Victoria
Yes, I’m aware, but I’m actually wondering why he’s not seeking a no contact order if the child suffered broken bones and other injuries in mum’s care.

Not normally a position I take, but it’s hard to argue with broken bones.

Perhaps you should read OP’s other posts...

Would make your ‘determinations’ far easier to understand. I’d prefer to stick to the facts when giving “opinions” even if those opinions can only based on the information provided.
 

Madagascar Madness

Well-Known Member
16 April 2018
36
2
124
Yes it is...
And if he could he would..
I personally never want her to see the children again.. and he feels the same - but all they could sustain was it happened in her house.. there where three people there..
They couldn’t substantiate who.....
Sons lawyer advised to try and move forwArd.. as supervised contact through contact company can’t keep going.




Yes, I’m aware, but I’m actually wondering why he’s not seeking a no contact order if the child suffered broken bones and other injuries in mum’s care.

Not normally a position I take, but it’s hard to argue with broken bones.