QLD Banned from Pub for 1 Year - Allowed Under Australian Law?

[Gary]

I have just been issued a letter informing me that a cartoon I had drawn on Thursday morning and placed on a vending machine had caused such offence that they deemed it necessary to ban me for one year.

The cartoon was of a person who had a swastika on his forehead and devil's horns and it said "on behalf of management we welcome you to the hohell<crossed out> hotell <crossed out> HOT-HELL R*******S''.

The manager of the pub seems to think it is a caricature of him, it isn't. It started life as a drawing of a football player which then became mephisto. The reason I drew it and wrote what I did was because when the doors opened at 10am there were three people there and two staff members. I asked one staff member if I could have a complimentary hot chocolate. In the 25 minutes I waited it was never made. Was I asked why I did it ,,,no. Had I received any warnings for this or any other offence ...no.
First, can I be banned from a hotel for one year under Australian Law? And second does the offence warrant a ban of one year.

 

[Rob Legat - SBPL]

So, you did it because you asked for something for free and didn’t get it? I’m not surprised that this sort of outcome happened.

Yes, they can ban you. They didn’t ‘deem it necessary’, I’d say they considered it appropriate in the circumstances. And I would hazard a guess that there may be other factors in their consideration.

As for the time frame, that’s up to them. If you want to shorten or possibly wipe it, you might want to consider an apology and a promise not to repeat your behaviour. Alternatively, look for somewhere else as a new watering hole.

 

[Gary]

So, you did it because you asked for something for free and didn’t get it? I’m not surprised that this sort of outcome happened.

Yes, they can ban you. They didn’t ‘deem it necessary’, I’d say they considered it appropriate in the circumstances. And I would hazard a guess that there may be other factors in their consideration.

As for the time frame, that’s up to them. If you want to shorten or possibly wipe it, you might want to consider an apology and a promise not to repeat your behaviour. Alternatively, look for somewhere else as a new watering hole.

No, Mr Legat I did not do it because I didn't get something for free as soon as I snapped my fingers. The drawing was done as two separate drawings the first was a football player. The second was mephisto the rest was born out of frustration. nothing is free and the same can be said for the refreshments provided at venues with pokie machines. You put money into the machines you can have a free biscuits coffee tea hoot chocolate, I dropped twenty before asking for the hot chocolate. there were two other customers in there both immersed in the electronic enjoyment provided by the venue.

The two staff were at the bar area and I asked could I please have a hot chocolate, I was told yes. This would have been approx. 10:20 about 20 mins later the person making the drink past me and said "its coming with out any prompting or my looking up from my drawing, I waited till close to 11 and then changed the drawing to one that caused such great distress.

You are correct in your assumption that there are other things to be taken into account, but not what you are thinking. To address your possible thought process. I do not drink alcohol. I haven't drank for 17 years. so if you think I've got a ratbag name in the pub the answer is no. the previous things taken into account are around six. Starting with 5 special commemorative gold $2 coins that I cashed for there face value and asked if I could buy back once I had finished playing.

The duty manager said yes and put them in a bag with my name in it, as soon as I had the money I paid for them and left them at the register until I was ready to leave. I forgot them, each time I'd ask if they were there I was told yes they were but id forget. Them when leaving. then I decided on my way home to go and grab them and take them home with me. When I asked I was told that they had been moved to the back room. That they couldn't retrieve them only a manager could.

When a manager was available some frequent visits later I was informed that they were gone. by this time a new manager arrived, I asked to speak to him but he was never available. I rang home on the phone and explained what happened. He said that he found what I was saying hard to believe as it was against company policy to mind customer belongings. I told him to ask your staff. During the conversation he again stated that he didn't believe me on three more occasions, at this point I also raised the matter regarding membership cards.

Due to my medical condition my memory isn't good and I often mislay my card on one of the first few weeks he had been there he issued me with a new card but then berated and chastised me in front of four other patrons about my having my fifth card issued and that next time id be paying for it as it cost the pub 5 per card.

I felt belittled and ridiculed by his manner and tone, I told him this at which time he said that that was just a statement of fact and it was costing the pub 5 per replacement card. again I told him about my disability and mentioned the amount of money id put through there in just 14 months. Again he disputed my statement saying that he found that hard to believe in the end I advised him to ask his staff and managers about me. He finished by agreeing to look into the gold coins.

6 weeks and still nothing. I see him and ask him whats happening with it. He claimed he was finding it hard to pin down the previous manager, the previous manager had not left simply been relocated. he said he would try and get onto the previous manager again. I waited another 5 weeks and rang. He was looking into it and was going to escalate to the area manager and get them to call. He confirmed my number and to date I've heard nothing. 4 of those coins are valued at 6 each and 1 is valued at 15.

There are just two of the previous bits of history. Mr Legat I ask you, if you had patiently waited, for 20 mins and then a further 10-15 mins for a beverage that whilst "free" was not forthcoming would you have been happy? Somehow I don't think so. you may not of taken the action I did but I doubt whether anyone would be happy. The course of action I took was not premeditated but rather born out of frustration and rather than get into a confrontation I decided to make light of it by adjusting my drawing and slapping it on the vending machine as I left.

And to be honest I'm not really bothered about not being allowed in what does bother me is a person who in my opinion, is a bully who has a personal dislike for me and is using his position to single me out and treat in a very harsh and unfair manner. and by the way the drawing was done on a piece of paper about 2inches by 1.5 inches. I don't know why the manager thinks its him when it quite clearly says "on behalf of management" I hope that this clarifies the matter and gives a little more insight into the relationship between customer and new manager.

I have done nothing directly to him yet he has done many things to me, despite my informing him on at least two occasions that I have a disability. There was nothing aimed personally at anyone, no abusive language nothing more than an insinuation that the pub was nothing more than hell, which at that particular point in time it was, will I write an apology why yes of course I will when I get one from them for the treatment I have received from the new manager who has basically accused me of deceit, attempting to obtain money by deception, belittling me and berating me in front of customers, fabricating events and for making no attempts whatsoever to look into my lost coin enquiry.

When I get that apology then and only then will the PUB receive an apology. The trouble with you Mr Legat is that you assumed that my actions were those of a boorish oaf whose drunken oafish behaviour has obviously been the cause of consternation many times in the past when nothing could be further from the truth

 

[Rob Legat - SBPL]

You seem pretty sure of yourself in my thought processes. I hate to tell you, but you’re incorrect. I made no assumption about whether or not you had been drinking; it didn’t even factor into my thoughts for two simple reasons: (a) you were in the venue at 10am, which for the average person is a little early to be drinking (let alone drunk) and (b) you were asking for a hot chocolate – hardly the choice of someone who is drinking.

What I was going off was what you said: “The reason I drew it and wrote what I did was because … I asked one staff member if I could have a complimentary hot chocolate … it was never made.” If you had other reasons, as you’ve now related, you failed to mention them. I shouldn’t have to say it, but to be clear: if you come asking for assistance you need to disclose the relevant facts. Without them we cannot answer your questions, and we are certainly not here to play 20 questions with you. It would have been relevant, for example, to clarify that the venue was in the habit of providing free beverages. Without that fact, it is reasonable to assume (as I did) that you were asking for something that you were not entitled to. If that were the case, it would be fairly cheeky to do so and then rude to get upset about a refusal.

The simple fact is you’ve annoyed the manager through a number of avenues. Your drawing was not a reasonable response to what actions had ‘befallen’ you, and stating “on behalf of management” clearly draws a direct impression between the picture and this manager; especially given your recent history with him. My impression is that you have been branded as a ‘ratbag’ due to the totality of the factors you’ve now raised, and the picture was the ‘icing on the cake’.

 

[Gary]

Mr Legat, Please accept my apology. More than anything my response to you was because your tone came across as dismissive and judgemental. The reason why I assumed you thought I was a drinker was this statement "Yes, they can ban you. They didn’t ‘deem it necessary’, I’d say they considered it appropriate in the circumstances. And I would hazard a guess that there may be other factors in their consideration" "other factors" implies that there were other incidents but in the context and tone of your statement you appear to be laying that blame in my court.

And if there are other factors one finds in a public house that this is usually underpinned by alcohol-because of the implication of "other factors" I assumed your thought process was boorish behaviour-length of ban-other incidence-pub-probably alcohol = management has had enough. so I wasn't going off this incident when believing you thought I was a lager lout but rather that you thought I had been. You are right, in order to obtain a balanced and considered response all relevant facts should be submitted and care should be taken into the wording of any statements made should they be taken out of context. I guess that for me I wanted clarification on:

1: can I be banned for what I did and 2: is the length of the ban excessive the first part you have answered. it is a business therefore not a "public house" and a business has the right to refuse patronage to whoever it chooses which brings me to the second part - since our message joust, and your pointing out the structure of a reply.

I have analysed your response to this part as you saying that this length of time is not excessive as the hotel would have had other factors to enter into their decision making. Based on that I would say that you would have to consider the ban excessive if their were no other factors. Correct? And whilst I have highlighted incidences that lead me to believe this is a personal attack, I have not yet shown any displeasure at the lack of action regarding the coin incident to either the staff, the management, the administration office or the owner of the hotel chain.

In fact I have always remained calm and cordial and have made sure that these conversations were recorded. The only time I have spoken to the manager about his treatment of me was over the membership card affair again this was done in a professional manner and the conversation was recorded.

So, based on:

1: This is the first time in two years that I have been involved in an incident <I don't consider the membership card an incident as I didn't address it at the time instead I waited for the opportunity to speak to the manager in a more private manner>

2: I have never been verbally told off by a member of staff for anything, if anything I would say that a majority of staff would view me in a favourable light I don't say every member because we know that at least one doesn't share that view

3: I was never asked what prompted me to do such a thing, based on my history at the club it would appear to b out of character, in short I have not been given the right to reply - as a member of a club shouldn't I be afforded the same courtesy as any other member of any other club. This is based on my knowledge under a European judicial system where a club member has the right to reply to any accusations that the said member has violated any rules where as a non member has no rights and can be evicted as long as it isn't based on sex disability religion etc, etc.

4:The manager is aware that I have a disability why wasn't this taken into consideration. I am not using this as an excuse but my mental health issues do cloud my judgement at times.

Is it not an excessive ban for such a small thing, juvenile yes, but on the grand scheme of things smalling on the cake.

I doubt that if anyone saw it, and they would have to squint to do so, they would have associated the drawing with the venue manager, in fact the deputy manager when presenting me with the letter and after asking what exactly had I done, had to suppress a laugh and couldn't stop smirking. That doesn't justify what I did, but it was certainly the response I hoped it would gauge. It was either that or goto the bar and let of steam. Perhaps if the manager had spoken to me, he could of addressed an ongoing problem (something else that I didn't include).

In closing I would like to again apologise Mr Legat for what appears to be a misunderstanding and I hope that, after reading my response you are able to understand my reasoning.

 

[Tim W]

Spend the

....I wanted clarification on
1: can I be banned for what I did

Yes.

... and 2: is the length of the ban excessive

No.
In the days when I ran licensed premises, Nazi symbols, even as a badly made joke,
would have got you a life ban.


Now, hear this, this before the Admins shut you down for good:

1. You need help.
   Those ranty posts of yours say to me that you need the help of doctors, not lawyers.
   I'm not medical, but to this layman's experienced eye, you don't write like somebody who is sick.
   You write like a person on the spectrum.
   With the greatest of courtesy, I suggest getting checked out.
   
   
2. You say you don't drink.
   Good.
   Don't ever start (or resume).
   
   
3. Stop playing the pokies.
   I know spectrum people who have Lost The Lot
   because their hook was poker machines.
   
   
4. Stop playing the pokies.
   Spend the money on buying fod and paying rent.

 

[Gary]

Spend the Yes. No.
In the days when I ran licensed premises, Nazi symbols, even as a badly made joke,
would have got you a life ban.


Now, hear this, this before the Admins shut you down for good:

1. You need help.
   Those ranty posts of yours say to me that you need the help of doctors, not lawyers.
   I'm not medical, but to this layman's experienced eye, you don't write like somebody who is sick.
   You write like a person on the spectrum.
   With the greatest of courtesy, I suggest getting checked out.
   
   
2. You say you don't drink.
   Good.
   Don't ever start (or resume).
   
   
3. Stop playing the pokies.
   I know spectrum people who have Lost The Lot
   because their hook was poker machines.
   
   
4. Stop playing the pokies.
   Spend the money on buying fod and paying rent.

What is a spectrum?

If you have read my posts you would see the word DISABILITY this would imply that I do see someone and that I have been diagnosed. What right do you have to suggest that I play the pokies to excess and to imply that I do not pay my rent or buy food? And I needn't worry about the admin side of things as I will be bringing your very unprofessional behaviour to their attention.

 

[Rob Legat - SBPL]

Gary, I accept your apology. I understand where you're coming from, and no one (at least no one I know) likes to be generalised.

To answer your queries about the length of the ban - it's completely arbitrary. That's the thing with private establishments, they can make their own rules. And as Tim pointed out, you possibly got off lightly given your picture included a swastika. Whatever the intention, that is simply one of the number of things that will almost guarantee you a bad reaction.

 

[Tim W]

What is a spectrum.?

In this case, the autism spectrum.

If you have read my posts you would see the word DISABILITY this would imply that I do see someone and that I have been diagnosed

Autism Spectrum conditions can be disabilities. Or not.
No matter if your disability is developmental, or is the effect of a disease, or is an acquired disability (such as physical brain injury),
I'd have still made the exact same remarks.

I read a lot of stream-of-consciousness rants like yours.
Often, but not always, it's possible to tell which ones are written by spectrum people,
which ones are the work of people with psychiatric conditions,
and which are the output of the merely eccentric.

What right do you have to suggest that I play the pokies to excess and to imply that I do not pay my rent or buy food

You came here asking for advice. It's not compulsory to take any notice of what's offered.
The word "excess" is yours, not mine.
I say you should stop playing the pokies because you are (what the law calls) a vulnerable person.

...and I needn't worry about the admin side of things as I will be bringing your very unprofessional behaviour to their attention.

Make sure you spell my name correctly.

 

[Gary]

If you know anything about people with conditions that are associated with mental health then you would have structured your response in a more empathetic and structured response. I have escalated your post to the admin people here and have brought it to the attention of the new Australian government website that deals with onsite cyber bullying.

Your insinuations accusations medical diagnosis derogatory remarks humiliation and intimidation have left me in a highly anxious and stressful state and have reduced me to tears. How dare you knowingly make unsubstantiated statements about my way of life, my health and my financial and social life and all of it done in a public forum to a person who has stated they have a disability.