VIC Are the rules around COVID19 legal? Can the fines and orders be fought in court?

[04tmeal]

So, I saw the story about gun stores that were forced to shut down due to new "rules" now saying they are banding together and going to sue the state government 'I can't pay bills': Gun dealers set to sue police over ban on sales
...and it made me think about our individual rights and freedoms.
Obviously every situation is going to be different but lets say I am walking down the street and decide to just sit in the sun on the bench, the media have told us this is not OK, the "rules" are you can only be out if your going to work, supermarket, pharmacy or exercising. So if I am fined, what legal basis is there for the fine and can I fight it legally in court?

 

[Rob Legat - SBPL]

I'd suggest going to this site and having a read: Responding to COVID-19: your questions answered

 

[04tmeal]

I'd suggest going to this site and having a read: Responding to COVID-19: your questions answered

Thanks for that Rob.
Doesn't answer everything but the part about the bio security act did.
Where do you recommend I tune into to find out when they relax the designation of 'listed human disease'?

 

[Rob Legat - SBPL]

It'll probably come through health.gov.au first.

 

[04tmeal]

It'll probably come through health.gov.au first.

Its interesting to read about biosecurity officers and police officers.
They can make army personnel biosecurity officers apparently.
I cant remember where I read it but I did read somewhere that only biosecurity officers can hand out penalty's in enforcing the act which is maybe why in Sydney they had army and police knocking on doors together.
If this is the case and I did not miss read (which admittedly I probably did) then that would mean the fines police are giving out are illegal?

 

[Tim W]

...what legal basis is there for the fine and can I fight it legally in court?

1. The infringements have a sound legal basis, yes.
Consider, for example, the powers in the Public Health and Wellbeing Act 2008 (Vic).

There's comparable law in NSW, where I am.
In NSW, the power comes from the Public Health Act 2010 (NSW) (in particular, section 7, and section 10).

Big picture, many people are learning, to their surprise (and occasionally, to their distress and/or resentment)
that, like most human rights and freedoms in Australia, freedom of movement only exists
to the extent that it either has an express statutory basis (such as the rights in the Victorian Charter of Human Rights and Responsibilities Act 2006 ,
which is usually just called "The Charter"); or that there is no other law in operation limiting it, or prohibiting the particular right.

2. You can court elect an infringment, sure.
The details will be on the back of the "ticket".

3. No, there's no mileage in a "rights and freedoms" defence to a breach of the order.
Your right to freedom of movement, and to freedom of association, are overall,
subject to there being no other law in operation to limit them, which, currently, there is.

Your defence can only be that you were doing either one of the essential or exempt activities.

4. Former High Court Justice Michael Kirby once described "Citizen" as
"the most important statutory office in the country."
Hear hear to that.
My point being this - more people should do the kind of thinking you've been doing.
It's part of your responsbility as a citizen to think, and to ask, about rights and freedoms etc.
People have worked, hard, and in some cases, literally fought and died, to establish them, and to protect them.
The least the private citizen can do is understand them.
Good karma to you for making a start.

 

[pierre]

So, I saw the story about gun stores that were forced to shut down due to new "rules" now saying they are banding together and going to sue the state government 'I can't pay bills': Gun dealers set to sue police over ban on sales
...and it made me think about our individual rights and freedoms.
Obviously every situation is going to be different but lets say I am walking down the street and decide to just sit in the sun on the bench, the media have told us this is not OK, the "rules" are you can only be out if your going to work, supermarket, pharmacy or exercising. So if I am fined, what legal basis is there for the fine and can I fight it legally in court?

This is a tough one, unfortunately legal and lawful are two different things, the political parties (parliament) believe they can make whatever Act and Statutes and pass them of as law. The question is, where do they get their authority from, to enforce it as law and is it constitutionally passed as Law?
The political parties (parliament) authoritie to make such Act and Statutes, (whenever they please) derived from the 1986 Australian Act
Now a little history lesson
1901 Commonwealth Constitution UK
Was created by "We the people" by the will of the people at Federation.
The Commonwealth Constitution sits "under Us" as it's our constitution. It's sovereign, as we are and it's the will of the people expressed by referendum, how the politicians (parliament) get to govern us. For us, not over us.
P791 commonwealth constitution 1901 " Says"
The federal parliament and the state Parliaments are not sovereign bodies; they are legislatures with limited powers, and any law which they attempt to pass in excess of those powers is no law at all it is simply a nullity, entitled to no obedience.
Also Pg 676 says the parliament is not supreme
Also Pg 794 Australia Parliamentary is not like the British parliament which are semi sovereign.
So some how, and I'm yet to figure it out, the Labour party "Bob Hawk our priminister" in 1986 (who was a duel nationalist with Israel) managed to pass The Australian Act, taking us into being a independent nation without consulting "we the people" without a referendum??, then deciding he could change my state WA, western Australia constitution. Change!! And from as far as I have researched, sec 106 alter in accordance with our constitution (which has not been done). This boggles my mind, cause the constitution is Law and I'm not sure what part of the law didn't the political party understand at that time.
The law is we the people, not we the political party, there is nothing from what I can find that gave them the authority to do so. Queensland in 1929 took out it's upper house 🤔 How?? Even Whitlam was sacked, for going behind the will of the people, but history seems to repeat. Also in 2005 Wayne Stewart Martin changed the oath of elegance to the Crown/ Queen Act, and the wrote a new WA state constitution. Huh?? So we dont have anymore any officer's of the Crown, police, judges politicians, everyone!! So under what authority do they all serve under NOW??
This link below is the current fileing to the courts of England to explain/ rectify the matter, and 28 days have passed.

Culleton UK matter still under review

commonwealthofaustralia.org

So this is by far no legal advice that I'm offering and saying, as I'm not a lawyer, I'm just a builder that has stumbled across the commonwealth constitution with my own infringement I'm battling, but the evidence/ truth can never disappear.
So as I see it, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong?
My WA state parliament with limited powers make Acts and Statutes to enforce police to be set up as road blocks to stop you from traveling interstate, stop you for traveling without there few reasons of travel, stop you/your business from working, and to excessively hinder your free will as sovereign to my constitution? This surly sounds like Federal not a state issue at all, so I say No!! They can't tell you what to do. You do have a considerable amount of leverage to contest it.
The issue is, will it be a legal judicial system under the Australian Act? Or a lawful one under the Comenweath Constitution 1901??
I haven't yet been confronted by a police officer yet
If they are even a police officer, cause legally they have been changed to public officers by the political parties, I'm not going to go there, but you can look up the meaning of public officers and who does it refers to.
Not saying I'm 100% correct and I'm always keen to learn the truth.
Cheers.

 

[pierre]

Its interesting to read about biosecurity officers and police officers.
They can make army personnel biosecurity officers apparently.
I cant remember where I read it but I did read somewhere that only biosecurity officers can hand out penalty's in enforcing the act which is maybe why in Sydney they had army and police knocking on doors together.
If this is the case and I did not miss read (which admittedly I probably did) then that would mean the fines police are giving out are illegal?

Interesting that you mentioned the army, I have read in my commonwealth constitution 1901 that the priminister Scot Morrison can't deploy the army, that only the Govener General only has the right to do so, one would think to utilize our army against the people, would be an Act of treason, as it's not scott Morrison army to do so.

 

[Tim W]

This is a tough one, unfortunately legal and lawful are two different things...

No, they're not.

So as I see it, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong?

Consider yourself corrected.

Kindly take a seat, and be quiet.

 

[04tmeal]

I rang my local police station yesterday and asked whether it was OK or not to go to a friends house and was told no it wasn't. I asked why being I was assisting my friend to setup his home office so it was work related, what law it was based on etc. He didn't really know and he got upset and hung up on me in the end.

I think the best we can do, is to not accept the fine and fight it in court.
That's the angle I'm taking. I've been going about my business.
And I'm starting to see action groups being formed to end the lockdown.

Thanks all.