TAS Caught Shoplifting or committing fraud

[KjinsuiO]

Hi guys,
Recently, my boyfriend (20) who’s from Melbourne thought it was a bright idea to go to Hobart, Tasmania and commit fraud or shoplifting. His “friends” and himself do this thing where they fiddle with the eftpos machine until it says approved & requires a signature to allow the transaction. They went to big w I believe and attempted to get away with “purchasing” several iPhone X’s which they would then sell to other people for cheaper prices. I’m guessing they took up to 10-15 between the 4 of them. All of them were caught and are all in custody to this day (this happened last week), they had a hearing the day after they were caught and were refused bail so they’re all held in remand.
My boyfriend himself doesn’t have a criminal history however one of the guys he was with has quite an extensive criminal background and has ties to the notorious apex gang.
I haven’t got in contact with my boyfriend yet so I don’t know exactly what role he played but before they committed the crime he assured me that he wouldn’t get involved first hand but would just be present to reap the financial benefits.

What charge is he looking at? Shoplifting, theft, or fraud?
How much time do you estimate he’ll be doing?
Will the history of the people he was with affect his charge?
And, will he be charged with 15 counts of fraud/shoplifting? Or just one count?

I know that every case is different and this may be quite unique, however, i’ve never gone through this process with anyone so I don’t know what to do but pray.
I need insight.
Thank you.

 

[Adam1user]

Interesting situation, I'm sure he would be in trouble for sure, I can not answer your questions, but what interests me is that how come you are attracted to him? what interests you in him?
why you can't find someone who is trouble free?

Just be careful, who you accompany will affect your life, there is no separation,,,,

 

[KjinsuiO]

Interesting situation, I'm sure he would be in trouble for sure, I can not answer your questions, but what interests me is that how come you are attracted to him? what interests you in him?
why you can't find someone who is trouble free?

Just be careful, who you accompany will affect your life, there is no separation,,,,

I appreciate that advice and I've been thinking about it a lot lately, "the people who you surround yourself with tell you a lot about yourself."
I fell in love with him years before he got involved in any illegal activity and it would be a bitchy move to leave him now when he needs me most. I don't mean to sound cliché but he's genuinely a kind soul. We get along really well and he has shown me nothing but loyalty and love over the years.

 

[Clancy]

Based on the information, its not fraud or shoplifting. It is property damage.... they have damaged the eftpos machine.
If somehow they did it without damaging the eftpos machine, then i am unclear that it is actually a crime? (intention to fraud?) The feature they are exploiting is there for when a power outage or other disconnection occurs. Its still a legal transaction, they have legally purchased the phones.

Their plan to avoid honoring the transaction later on is definitely fraud.... but before that happens i suppose the initial act can be considered an intention to fraud?

 

[KjinsuiO]

Based on the information, its not fraud or shoplifting. It is property damage.... they have damaged the eftpos machine.
If somehow they did it without damaging the eftpos machine, then i am unclear that it is actually a crime? (intention to fraud?) The feature they are exploiting is there for when a power outage or other disconnection occurs. Its still a legal transaction, they have legally purchased the phones.

Their plan to avoid honoring the transaction later on is definitely fraud.... but before that happens i suppose the initial act can be considered an intention to fraud?

Hi,
Thank you for your response. They don't permanently damage the EFTPOS machine. After the transaction says approved it continues to perform functions correctly. After further research, I think they may be charged with obtaining property by deception or financial gain.

 

[Clancy]

Hi,
Thank you for your response. They don't permanently damage the EFTPOS machine. After the transaction says approved it continues to perform functions correctly. After further research, I think they may be charged with obtaining property by deception or financial gain.

Well, like i said, what they did technically still counts as a legitimate transaction, so on the surface of it, they have not actually committed a crime. But, the law is not that stupid unfortunately for them, INTENT counts! So your probably rite .... Intent to obtain property by deception? Or an intent to fraud?

 

[Bill Murray]

If they had paid for the items (and thus conducted a legitimate transaction) they wouldn't have been charged as no offence would have occurred.

They've either used a stolen card and used the feature to get around the pin requirement or they've used their own cards but forced the machine to run in offline mode. The transactions will decline once processed.

Regardless of which of the above they've done they've committed fraud. It's almost the exact definition of fraud.

There are numerous charges in Tas which fit the above but all would be categorised as Fraud.

 

[Clancy]

If they had paid for the items (and thus conducted a legitimate transaction) they wouldn't have been charged as no offence would have occurred.

They've either used a stolen card and used the feature to get around the pin requirement or they've used their own cards but forced the machine to run in offline mode. The transactions will decline once processed.

Regardless of which of the above they've done they've committed fraud. It's almost the exact definition of fraud.

There are numerous charges in Tas which fit the above but all would be categorised as Fraud.

Wrong. Your assumption is that the transactions will decline 'once processed', but until that actually happens, its not a crime. There is no crime here, (yet) unless you take into account intent.

 

[Bill Murray]

Wrong. Your assumption is that the transactions will decline 'once processed', but until that actually happens, its not a crime. There is no crime here, (yet) unless you take into account intent.

It's not an assumption - I worked for 4 years in fraud (document fraud, online fraud and merchant fraud) in one of the Big 4 banks. As soon as the transactions were processed which would either be as soon as the device came online or that night they would decline. Even in a worst case scenario it'd be 3 days. It occurred a week ago.

You don't get held for a week with bail being denied when no crime has occurred. But my money is on them using stolen credit cards anyway, not their own. The use of stolen credit cards is fraud whether they approve or not.

 

[Clancy]

It's not an assumption - I worked for 4 years in fraud (document fraud, online fraud and merchant fraud) in one of the Big 4 banks. As soon as the transactions were processed which would either be as soon as the device came online or that night they would decline. Even in a worst case scenario it'd be 3 days. It occurred a week ago.

You don't get held for a week with bail being denied when no crime has occurred. But my money is on them using stolen credit cards anyway, not their own. The use of stolen credit cards is fraud whether they approve or not.

I dont know about that, so far as it implies they would not be held if they had used their own legitimate cards?? True? hmmm... But if they did use their own cards, the store would know who to chase for the money later on. And then it would be an issue of debt collection, not crime? Yea?
So perhaps you are right, they would have to use stolen cards in order to avoid being chased by debt collection?