WA Threat to kill / Extortion

[LovingDad1973]

Just wondering whether my thinking makes sense:

1. An ex of mine left two voicemails (which I have copies of) on my phone telling me "to not be in my home with my daughters for a weekend because a male friend of hers was coming around with his cousins (who had been in jail for murdering bikies) to sort me out"

As it was a voicemail I think I am entitled to have a recording of it unlike say recording a private conversation, which I believe is illegal.

She confirmed what she had said in the voicemail via a subsequent text message.

I believe this was an implied threat to kill:

Threat to Kill (WA) - Go To Court Lawyers

Express or implied
A person may be found guilty of making a threat to kill whether the threat was express or implied. The test for whether something constitutes a threat is an objective test. In the 1978 decision of R v Zaphir, Chief Justice Wanstall told the jury that a threat used in the ordinary English meaning would arouse “some sort of indication or intention to cause harm or damage” and the threat “must be of such a nature and extent, that the mind of an ordinary person of normal ability might be influenced or made apprehensive so as to accede unwillingly to the demand.”

2. My ex left numerous text messages on my phone threatening that if I didnt pay her money she believed I owed her she would report me to the police. She subsequently made a statement to the police claiming I had assaulted her. The police questioned me and took no further action. She did eventually get an FVRO (6 months after the alleged assault) but I believe that an FVRO is usually given in WA ex-parte

There is no evidence or witness of an assault as it did not happen

I believe this was an attempt to "gain money from me by threatening to accuse me of an indictable offence in an attempt to get me to succumb to their demands"

Blackmail / Demand Property With Menace / Extortion By Threats

Section 416 of the Criminal Code states: 416. Any person who, with intent to extort or gain any property or benefit or the performance of services from a person-

(a) accuses or threatens to accuse any person of committing any indictable offence,

Is my thinking correct / should I report the matter to the police / what other evidence would I require?

I have discussed the FVRO in the Family Law section but I believe this is a criminal matter so I might get a reply from someone who has experience in this type of legal action
WA - Family Violence Restraining Order

Thanks for any help

 

[sammy01]

Mate u should have reported it at the time.

Reporting it now could cause her to be charged. All you have to do is submit the information to the cops and they will decide if they want to pursue it. But once you tell them there is an avo already in play, they will want to know why the delay in reporting... Why didn't you mention it at the time you were interviewed for the avo? did you forget? So sure, they might charger her, but that won't change the predicament you're in with the avo...

I reckon you're gonna need a solicitor to help defend the avo. But no real harm in going it alone. However, I think at least a chat to a solicitor for some guidance. Don't just take advice from punters like us on a website like this, not for something that important...

Mate I do think that you want to be careful. Not legal advice, just some life experience. See nutters that are prepared to make threats and lie will take it all the way. You're throwing fuel on the fire... Walk away, accept without admission, it won't hurt your family law matter. Be careful, don't give the ex wife any ammo. She'll see how easy these things are to get. BUT - you're no longer in a domestic relationship with the wife, so the other type of order (can't remember the name right now) but they are harder to get... But like I said before, the AVO means the ex girlfriend can't come knocking on your door. It protects you too. You can move on with your life - BTW. I'm sweet now, but for a while there all this family law BS caused a hell of a lot of friction between me and my new you beaut love her to death awesome partner.

Plan B - defend the avo. Win.... Ex girlfriend finds other ways to seek vengeance and she will be even more pissed off at you for accusing her of lying about the DV (I know, I know).

Ultimately, all folks like me with a keyboard can do is trying to help you understand the options. You've gotta make your own choices in life. But with all of this stuff, sadly money talks. My advice would be to see a solicitor if it matters that much to you. If not take the path of least resistence and move on with your life.

 

[LovingDad1973]

Thats good advice Sammy and I will think carefully about my next move.

One thing I forgot to mention. When I listened to the voicemail I telephoned the police and asked for their advice. They basically told me to be careful and if anyone came to my home to call 000.

I actually have this call to the police recorded as well. Long story but I was trying out this SMS app at the time which recorded calls.

But the upshot is that I did actually report the threat from my ex gf at the time and the police will have a record of the call

Cheers

 

[LovingDad1973]

TBH I should have got an FVRO out but being a typical guy I didn't want to make a big fuss

 

[LovingDad1973]

I am currently out of the country taking a break away from all the madness in Perth and seeing my parents. Its giving me a great chance to have a good think about things. And finding this website is helping me consider different potential

Ultimately I think I will put together my affidavit + evidence (including threats of violence, relentless messaging threatening the police if I didn't "pay up") for the FVRO and submit to the Magistrates Court.

If my ex-girlfriend sees sense and backs off then I will probably let it lie. Her lawyer (I believe my ex-wife is paying for her lawyer as there are similar errors on both set of court documents) may actually advise her that things could get very bad for her.

However, if my ex-girlfriend presses ahead with the FVRO then I want to be ready to go hard.

I believe my ex-wife is well-advised legally and is already looking for any reason to cause me grief. Unfortunately, she sees any attempt by me to negotiate as weakness so I have learned the only thing she listens to is me winning via legal means.

Luckily I am in a very positive place mentally and have a very supportive partner who I have been completely honest with about my predicament

 

[Atticus]

Based on my own experience taking a private applicant to a hearing, my prediction is she will just adjourn for as long as possible to avoid court... She can probably do that a couple of times before a mag gets fed up, but that will string it out for anywhere from 2 - 6 months... Then don't be surprised if she then just decides to drop the whole thing, no questions asked... I so wish I could tell you that some consequence for her would follow, but no, not even if you went to court & proved all her grounds for seeking an FVRO are lies... If it was me, I would be ready to go with a conduct agreement if the court was willing to accept it, on modified terms.

 

[sammy01]

mate I'd be very very surprised if the same solicitor was representing the ex wife and the ex girlfriend. Conflict of interest.

I have spent more than an hour trying to find some good data / research. I really wanted to find out what % of AVO cases are dismissed. I guess what I'm getting at is trying to find something tangible to help you understand your chance of success.

I'll keep trying later.
But there is some interesting data
GRANTED - this stuff is to do with APVO - so argument with the neighbour about the dog...
https://www.bocsar.nsw.gov.au/Documents/CJB/cjb161.pdf
Very few applications to the courts are dismissed. (pg 10) And magistrates rarely believe they're frivolous. (I disagree)

This one is based on NSW - but again, the gist applies across the country.
Defending an Apprehended Violence Order - Frequently Asked Questions
There seems to be a concerted effort to limit information to punters like you and me about how to go about defending one's self... that suxs.

This one is interesting
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/NSWBOCSARLES/1997/11.pdf
pg 29 - The majority of AVO's were taken after separation 1-6 mths after... So your scenario is pretty common - BTW I think the data is skewed, I'd like to see 1-2 months, 2-4 months etc... But this is the best I could find...

Page38 is worth a read - 77% are accept without admission. Leaving 23% that get contested. I'd love to know the data on how that 23% pan out. I'm willing to bet a huge % would be where the applicant refused to mediate, then didn't show up for any of the court mentions / hearings. So IF IM RIGHT - those that are withdrawn are not withdrawn because a magistrate has assessed the evidence etc. It is simply that the applicant has not pursued it... Not much justice there.

Some food for thought. Before you start preparing to defend the thing, do some research, read the links I've sent make an informed call. Frankly, you've got two punters here (that is all we are punters). But -Atticus and myself are both suggesting there are merits in a conduct agreement / agree without admission.

 

[sammy01]

oops one more thing. I don't believe the system is sexist. It is flawed. But for you to call the cops, explain your concerns and be told to get back to them IF someone comes to execute their threats (and you) WOW. And they didn't direct you to go to the local cop shop and complain?

I guess I'm just inviting you to consider that in my opinion at least, it is not about fair / just or anything like that... There is a reality here, and in my opinion, the reality is fighting this thing will not end well, even if you win the avo....

I wish I could say something different.

 

[Atticus]

I found a journal on FVO's some time back & bookmarked it.. If you have a bit of time it's an interesting read & goes into actual figures.. A bit dated, I think around 2009 -10 & I assume the figures & percentages have all increased since then..

Here's a small excerpt from page 11 under the heading 'A prevalence of family violence orders'>>>> In Victoria, about 40 per cent of applications in domestic cases are also finally disposed of by being withdrawn or dismissed, with a further 5–6 per cent being withdrawn after receiving an undertaking<<<<<

Source >>> https://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/SydLRev/2011/1.pdf

 

[sammy01]

Makes for interesting reading.... But I think the bit above on page 11 is interesting. Mostly they're withdrawn or dismissed because the complainant does not show up.

This is also worth a read..
Mention

Information overload for LovingDad...
Mate - for what it is worth, I reckon I'm gonna contradict myself. But I reckon, if WA works similar to the article in NSW - where you have to make a statement, etc (read the article) and you note in your statement that you have documentation of her threatening you... She just might find herself a little bit worried and choose to run and hide.

As far as the Undertaking goes... If the police took the interim avo, according to that article, you're not much chance of getting an undertaking.